--- Log opened Fri Mar 09 00:00:13 2007
03:02 -!- pabs3 [n=pabs@dsl-220-235-12-70.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #synfig
03:03 < pabs3> dooglus: (09/03/07 05:40:26) darco: you should be able to edit comments in subversion now
03:14 < dooglus> oh, ok :)
03:16  * pabs3 afk for a bit
03:24 < dooglus> I've fixed my word-
03:24 < dooglus> wrapped commit com-
03:24 < dooglus> ments now.
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03:27 < dooglus> useful alias to edit an svn commit comment: alias svnedcom='svn propedit svn:log --revprop -r'
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05:48 < pabs3> dooglus: http://rafb.net/p/RPUIrd74.html (bash editsvnlog function)
05:52 < pabs3> I'm gonna go thru the commits starting with etl and fixing the comments based on the diff
05:57 < pxegeek> I saw dooglus' post on synfig-devl about his windows crash with encapsulated layers
05:57 < pxegeek> I'm wondering if that might be related to what I'm seeing...
05:58 < pxegeek> I don't  see a crash on 'simple' pictures, only on 'more complex ones' - which coincidentally(?) have encapsulated layers
06:00 < pabs3> sounds related then
06:00 < pabs3> what is the message id on that?
06:03 < pxegeek> Ummm...  Message: 2
06:03 < pxegeek> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 15:56:42 +0100
06:03 < pxegeek> From: "Chris Moore" <dooglus@gmail.com>
06:03 < pxegeek> Subject: [Synfig-devl] bug 1420091: Crash when deleting vertex items
06:04 < pxegeek> Quote "It seems that the crash doesn't happen if the region isn't
06:04 < pxegeek> encapsulated, or if the region has been created this session, not read
06:04 < pxegeek> from a file, or if the param dialog's 'vertices' node isn't opened."
06:10 < dooglus> pxegeek: what crash are you looking into?
06:11 < pxegeek> I've been seeing all sorts of unpredictable crashes under windows :(
06:12 < pxegeek> Synfig seems RELATIVELY stable is I'm not using timelines i.e. a static picture
06:14 < pxegeek> Converting a static picture to an animation > Edit -> Properties -> Time ->end time = 10s ->OK will cause a crash with anything but the simplest pictures.  I'm trying to see if it correlates to whether I have an encapsulated layer
06:16 < dooglus> ok
06:17 < dooglus> I installed the unofficial windows build yesterday
06:17 < dooglus> and saw a crash I've never seen in linux
06:17 < dooglus> I was just dragging some ducks around and it crashed
06:18 < pxegeek> Yes, from reading comments, I have a feeling its a little less stable than the linux version
06:18 < pxegeek> Sometimes you just touch a control and things go poof! 
06:19 < dooglus> if I could work out how to build it on Windows, I'd have a look around
06:19 < dooglus> but I've so far been unable to
06:19 < pxegeek> But the unofficial build is better than the 'official' build, where you could almost guarantee that the controls would explode :)
06:19 < dooglus> the whole cygwin/msys/mingw deal confuses me
06:19 < pxegeek> Now it seems to be synfig issues rather than GTK issues
06:20 < pxegeek> I haven't tried compiling.  Did you work out a recipe?
06:20 < dooglus> no
06:20 < dooglus> I worked out what not to do
06:20 < pxegeek> :)
06:20 < dooglus> ie. randomly download and install packages and end up with a mess
06:21 < dooglus> I think I finally gave up when I couldn't find a sigc library
06:21 < pxegeek> Maybe Atrus can share his recipe?....
06:22 < dooglus> hopefully
06:22 < dooglus> I asked in an email to the devel list
06:22 < dooglus> (I think)
06:22 < pxegeek> I installed windebug, but haven't figured out how to point it at the source so that it can correlate the crash point to the source code.
06:23 < pxegeek> I can step through the code and watch it explode in slow motion though :)
06:23 < dooglus> do you get to see source file names and line numbers?
06:24 < dooglus> or is it at the assembly language level?
06:24 < pxegeek> No, just CPU registers & stack pointers
06:24 < dooglus> hmm.
06:24 < dooglus> did you try running it in gdb?
06:24 < pxegeek> It tells me there's an access violation, but unless you know what's at that point in memory....
06:25 < pxegeek> no
06:25 < dooglus> if it's compiled with debugging stymbols, gdb should be able to show you which file and line umber it's at
06:26 < pabs3> dooglus: seems that atrus is building it under plain msys/mingw, no cygwin involved
06:26 < pxegeek> does it need the source to match it up to, or is that info in the debug symbols?
06:27 < dooglus> pabs3: ok.  I was mislead by the wiki's build instructions then - they suggest using cygwin to build a mingw binary, or some such?
06:27 < pabs3> yeah, cus thats what darco said was easier
06:27 < dooglus> pxegeek: it doesn't need the source, no, but if it finds the source it will show the appropriate line from the source.
06:27 < pabs3> atrus hasn't added any instructions yet
06:27 < madsen> pabs3: One comment on the news post - it's fine.
06:28 < pabs3> :)
06:28 < dooglus> pabs3: is there any kind of 'apt-get'-alike for mingw?  I found myself manually downloading and untarring a bunch of archives
06:28  * madsen greets the rest of #synfig.
06:28 < dooglus> hi madsen
06:28 < madsen> dooglus: Hey!
06:28  * pxegeek is getting close to bedtime...
06:28 < pabs3> dooglus: dunno really, I tend to avoid mingw unless I'm cross-compiling from debian
06:29 < madsen> dooglus: Perhaps some yum or ports?
06:29  * pabs3 greetz madsen 
06:30 < pabs3> I'm assuming that this is what you want for synfig devel on win32: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/binaries/win32/gtkmm/2.10/gtkmm-win32-devel-2.10.7-1.exe
06:32 < madsen> Ok, with Playtupus I was able to build a double-clickable app-bundle - now I just need to figure out what libs I can assume are on a normal OS X installation and which to include in the bundle...
06:33 < pabs3> rocken
06:33 < dooglus> madsen: the best way to do that would be to try it on someone else's machine I guess
06:34 < pxegeek> poof - there goes that theory.  Can't see a pattern to the crashes at all.  Saving first, leaving objects selected, or having an inline canvas - none of them prevented me creating a timeline.  Grrr...
06:34 < madsen> dooglus: Yeah, I figure so. Only problem is that all my friends have PPC-machines... Mine's intel, so my version is Intel only (until I figure out how to make Fink build stuff for PPC as well...)
06:35 < pabs3> madsen: inkscape has universal builds that seem to be enabled using ./configure --enable-universal, perhaps you could look at their autoconf stuff to see how they do it
06:36 < pabs3> ok, google summer-of-code application time
06:38 < pabs3> if ppl can help me come up with answers to these questions, that'd be good: http://code.google.com/soc/org_signup.html
06:38 < madsen> pabs3: Yeah, the problem isn't Synfig itself, it's all the libs (installed by Fink).
06:38 < pabs3> ahhh
06:40 < madsen> pabs3: Does the synfig dev-team have a name? (I was wondering what to put in the copyright field in the app-bundle.
06:40 < madsen> )
06:40 < pabs3> up-to-date copyright info is listed in the README files in SVN
06:40 < dooglus> the synners?
06:40 < pabs3> :)
06:40 < madsen> lol!
06:41 < pxegeek> synfiggers?
06:41 < pxegeek> synfigures?
06:41 < madsen> I like The Synners - there's a lot of potential jokes in that.
06:42  * pabs3 also
06:43 < dooglus> what's the history of the name synfig by the way?
06:44 < dooglus> seems there was a previous project with a very similar name
06:45 < pabs3> the svn logs indicate it used to be called sinfg
06:45 < madsen> Maybe therefore .sif?
06:46  * pabs3 doesn't really know, darco would though
06:47 < pabs3> ok, any volunteers to be google SoC mentors?
06:47 < pabs3> making a wiki page for SoC
06:47 < pxegeek> Grrr...  Can't get the stupid thing to crash now, except by using one of my old files.  
06:48 < pxegeek> I'd offer, but they'd have to teach me to code first :(
06:48  * madsen too.
06:49  * pxegeek has to get up early tomorrow...
06:49 < pxegeek> 'night all
06:49 < pabs3> :)
06:49 < madsen> pxegeek: Night!
06:49 < pabs3> ideas for projects would be good tho
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06:50 < madsen> pabs3: Once I get synfig running again, I'll start submitting ideas.
06:50 < pabs3> cool
06:50 < dooglus> I read somewhere that Darco had plans to speed synfig's rendering up by an order of magnitude or two
06:51 < dooglus> if he can describe how he was planning to do that, that would make a good project
06:51 < madsen> Yeah, that'd be great.
06:51 < pabs3> yep
06:51 < dooglus> because it's very slow at the moment.  even if we get rid of all these crashing bugs, it'll still be very slow.
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06:53 < madsen> What about some SVG import?
06:53 < pabs3> indeed!
06:54 < dooglus> http://www.synfig.com/synfig_tutorial.pdf is the document which mentions the planned "2000% speed increase"
06:59 < madsen> Could someone implement it, if darco gave a relatively in-depth description?
07:00 < madsen> I mean, GSoC or no.
07:00 < pabs3> probably, if they could understand the description :)
07:01 < pabs3> http://wiki.synfig.com/GoogleSoC
07:03 < pabs3> (added rabecha cus she was the lead artist at voria iirc, and I have her jabber addy)
07:03 < madsen> Nice list!
07:03 < madsen> pabs3: Cool! If she'd like to help, that'd be awesome!
07:04 < pabs3> indeed, I haven't talked to her yet, darco just gave me the address a while ago
07:06 < madsen> Ok, synfig 0.61.05-275 built on OS X... Now I just need to make it call the right libs and then we have an OS X (Tiger) Intel binary at least... I really hope I can make it universal at some point.
07:08 < pabs3> excellent, good work madsen. be sure to let us know of any changes needed :)
07:09 < madsen> pabs3: There aren't really any, except from in macosxbuild.sh, but they're local settings, so... None!
07:10 < madsen> As for the universal - some might be needed, but I don't know about that yet.
07:11 < pabs3> what about the macosxbuild.sh changes? anything we could do to make it more generic? can you pastebin the diff?
07:11 < madsen> pabs3: I wouldn't dare...
07:12 < madsen> pabs3: It's mostly stuff like install-path and such, which is really fine as-is.
07:12 < pabs3> :) ok
07:13 < madsen> pabs3: I'm not even sure I've seen the original build script since the first 'svn co'...
07:13 < madsen> Btw, I can't seem to find a way to clean up my checkout without deleting and co'ing again.
07:14 < pabs3> make maintainer-clean should do it
07:14 < madsen> Really? I'll try that. :)
07:14 < pabs3> also, svn status will tell you which files are not known about by svn
07:14 < pabs3> (and which are modified)
07:14 < madsen> pabs3: Yeah, I know that, but then I'd have to script the cleanup.
07:15 < pabs3> ya
07:15 < madsen> pabs3: Well, I guess that'll do if make maintainer-clean doesn't do the trick. :)
07:16 < madsen> I get "make: *** No rule to make target `maintainer-clean'. Stop." for synfig.
07:18 < pabs3> hmm, maybe that is from newer automake versions
07:18 < pabs3> try grep maintainer-clean Makefile
07:19 < madsen> Nothing.
07:19 < madsen> automake 1.8.5
07:20 < madsen> Ok, great - after building the latest version, my app-bundle doesn't work anymore. :(
07:22 < pabs3> :(
07:24 < madsen> Yeah, some problem with loading libxml++-2.6.2.dylib - I'm looking into it now.
07:24  * pabs3 gonna try to change a few simple message boxes to use the Gtk::MessageDialog function instead, so much prettier/more standard
07:24 < madsen> pabs3: Good plan. :)
07:26 < dooglus> madsen: 'svn revert' I think will clean it up
07:27 < dooglus> madsen: ie. will throw away your changes and go back to the repository versions
07:27 < madsen> dooglus: Yeah, but it doesn't remove files created locally.
07:27 < dooglus> madsen: no
07:27 < dooglus> madsen: it's useful to make a tar archive (or similar) of the repository right after checking it out
07:27 < dooglus> then you can extract that in multiple places if you want to
07:28 < madsen> dooglus: I guess, 'svn revert' and 'svn st | grep ^? | awk {'print $2'} | xargs rm -rf' is the best for now.
07:28 < madsen> dooglus: Good idea, I'll remember that!
07:30 < madsen> pabs3: Another idea for SoC, a text tool!
07:31 < pabs3> text tool?
07:31 < madsen> pabs3: You know, you type in some text and you can manipulate it...
07:31 < pabs3> hmm, so like an interface to creating text layers
07:31 < madsen> pabs3: Yeah
07:32  * pabs3 tries the current interface
07:32 < madsen> pabs3: There is one already? I've _completely_ missed that!
07:33 < pabs3> Layer -> new layer -> typograhpy -> simple text
07:33 < madsen> pabs3: Lol! Exactly what I wanted! Doh!
07:34 < madsen> I guess I better go hide in shame for a while (and buy some cigarettes while I'm there).
07:34 < madsen> brb!
07:34 < pabs3> bit hidden away isn't it :)
07:34 < madsen> pabs3: It is, but still, I've been looking through that menu a million times... I should've seen it...
07:34 < madsen> Well, cigarettes... Brb, for real!
07:42 < dooglus> I've got 19 here I'm hoping not to need
08:08 < pabs3> added SoC application questions: http://wiki.synfig.com/GoogleSoC
08:19 < madsen> pabs3: I was thinking, maybe link to the PDF with the stuff about the "infamous 2000% speedup".
08:19 < pabs3> indeed
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09:59 < madsen> Btw, I installed Ubuntu on my MacBook - so now I can both use /and/ build synfig. ;)
10:02 < pabs3> good stuff :)
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10:02  * pabs3 trying to fix the input devices close button, gtk is hard
10:02 < xerakko> good morning
10:02 < pabs3> hey xerakko :)
10:02 < xerakko> I've seen your proposal :)
10:03 < pabs3> the SoC one?
10:03 < xerakko> If google aprove it... will supose a big advance in synfig
10:03 < xerakko> yes
10:04 < pabs3> yeah, just need some people to mentor/admin
10:04 < xerakko> does darco will do the optimizations?
10:04 < xerakko> will darco do the optimizations?
10:06 < pabs3> dunno, haven't talkd to him about it yet
10:06 < pabs3> but the idea was he would describe what he had in mind for the optimisations and a student would implement them
10:08 < xerakko> yes
10:09 < xerakko> swf export?
10:09 < pabs3> yeah, def a possibility, same as svg/mng/etc
10:10  * pabs3 adds it to the page
10:10 < xerakko> I have an swf export working, but I didn't like how I did it.
10:10 < xerakko> It's based in ffmpeg
10:11 < pabs3> right, so it is video rather than vector
10:11 < xerakko> exact
10:11 < xerakko> I didn't upload it to svn because I thought it was not a good option.
10:12 < xerakko> I began the synfig manual
10:13 < xerakko> and I have the structure in docbook
10:13 < xerakko> but It must added the contents
10:13 < xerakko> and give them contents
10:14 < xerakko> It's a large work
10:15 < pabs3> quite
10:16 < pabs3> yay, fixed the close button on the input devices dialog
10:17 < xerakko> I had it with i18n support
10:17 < pabs3> what do you mean?
10:17 < xerakko> not only english
10:18 < xerakko> add a new language in the translations
10:18 < xerakko> will be only copy a directory and ad two letters to a makefile (the idea was taken from debian installer manual)
10:18 < pabs3> oh, you mean the documentation?
10:18 < xerakko> yes!
10:18 < pabs3> :)
10:19 < pabs3> sounds good
10:20 < pabs3> I'd suggest that the documentation would be in a separate svn directory, something like http://svn.voria.com/code/synfig-docs/trunk
10:20 < xerakko> ok
10:20 < xerakko> I'll upload now.
10:20 < pabs3> and have it as a separate tarball (as well as html zip) for download
10:21 < pabs3> ok, I'll add an item to the monthly news when you've done that
10:21 < xerakko> ok
10:21 < xerakko> but the work is very icomplete
10:22 < pabs3> thats ok, maybe people will send patches :)
10:23 < xerakko> :)
10:23 < pabs3> If I add this as a SoC project, would you have time to mentor it?
10:23 < xerakko> yes
10:24 < pabs3> awesome
10:24 < xerakko> at this moment it render html and pdf
10:26 < pabs3> added to here: http://wiki.synfig.com/GoogleSoC
10:45 < xerakko> I had it forgotten, and now it don't want to build :/
11:03 < omry> pabs3, xerakko great news :)
11:08 < pabs3> anyone got any friends in canada? 
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11:33 < xerakko> one problem solved, it builds pdf. now html...
11:58 < xerakko> other problem solved, now it builds html too. now ps....
11:59 < madsen> xerakko: Wow! You're one problem sovling machine! Maybe you should stop by my place and solve a few issues too! ;-p
11:59 < xerakko> XD
12:02 < xerakko> It seems that if when I did all this, I had done a backup... now I 'm not solving problems...
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12:49 < xerakko> and ps!
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13:06 < xerakko> pabs3: uploaded to svn
13:07 < pabs3> cool
13:08 < pabs3> I'll add that to the news post a bit later
13:08  * pabs3 off to tv land :)
13:08 < xerakko> It seems I had lost the last changes in my laptop crash
13:08 < xerakko> but not too... they build again for html, ps and pdf
13:09 < xerakko> I supose I've lost a few files imported from wiki...
13:09 < xerakko> but the base work is done.
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 10 00:00:12 2007