--- Log opened Thu Mar 15 00:00:12 2007
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01:29 < pabs3> hi tokyo :)
02:09 < dooglus> hey pabs, did a google soc application get submitted?
02:09 < pabs3> nope
02:11 < dooglus> oh dear
02:11 < pabs3> ya
02:11 < pabs3> I'm about to get full-time work too btw
02:11 < dooglus> oh, well done.
02:11 < dooglus> what will you be doing?
02:12 < tokyo> hey pabs3, i did have a question about building synfigstudio, but i managed to sorted it out
02:13 < pabs3> dooglus: general sysadmin work
02:13 < pabs3> tokyo: ah, cool
02:13 < pabs3> tokyo: any changes we should make?
02:13 < tokyo> but there is one thing keeping me from using synfig, i can't draw on the canvas?  
02:14 < dooglus> I should really get back to work myself
02:14 < dooglus> tokyo: set environment variable: SYNFIG_ENABLE_DRAW=1
02:15 < tokyo> dooglus: noted, im about to eat so i'll post anything relevant later on
02:15 < dooglus> tokyo: see also SYNFIG_ENABLE_SKETCH=1 for freehand (raster) sketching
02:16 < dooglus> I'm about to sleep, so I'll see anything you say tomorrow.
02:16 < dooglus> night.
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06:44 < pabs3> http://advogato.org/person/lkcl/diary.html?start=369
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09:32 < dooglus> hmmm, he talks about how email is bad for communication, but then completely fails to communiate to me what video he's talking about, what went wrong with the samba project, etc.
09:35 < pabs3> yeah, full context depends on reading the advogato recentlog
09:35 < pabs3> probably the video from the svn group on google video
09:46 < dooglus> I don't know - they were very pro-email in that video
09:46 < dooglus> to the point that "IRC is OK, but if a discussion doesn't take place on email, it didn't happen"
09:48 < dooglus> oh, you're right - he is talking about that video
09:52 < dooglus> he also seems to be advocating making the development lists private.  how do you attract new developers if you do that?
09:56 < pabs3> indeed
09:57 < dooglus> since 'no email' and 'strict subdivision of public-users and private-devel' are basically all 8 of his points, I disagree with everything he writes...
10:43 < dooglus> do you know of any tool which can generate class diagrams from C++ source code?
10:43 < dooglus> I've been looking at 'autodia', but it doesn't work very well, and the project seems to be dead.
10:46 < pabs3> doxygen has nice diagrams
10:46 < pabs3> "make docs" should do it
10:46 < dooglus> oh, ok
10:54 < dooglus> make[1]: Leaving directory `/ubuntu-root/home/chris/programs/synfig/svn/synfigstudio'
10:54 < dooglus> make: *** No rule to make target `doxygen.cfg', needed by `.doc_stamp'.  Stop.
10:54 < dooglus> :(
10:55 < pabs3>  doxygen -g is used to generate it
10:56 < dooglus> it seems that synfig/config/doxygen.cfg.in is used to generate one for synfig,
10:56 < dooglus> but that synfigstudio doesn't have a similar file
10:58 < pabs3> hmm, synfig/config/doxygen.cfg.in needs all those comments as well as non-default settings stripped out 
11:01 < dooglus> if I edit synfig's doxygen.cfg to have:
11:01 < dooglus> INPUT                  = src/synfig ../synfigstudio/src/gtkmm ../synfigstudio/src/synfigapp ../etl/ETL
11:01 < dooglus> then I get a single report for all 3 modules
11:01 < pabs3> nice one
11:02 < pabs3> does that get all the plugins too?
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11:03 < dooglus> no
11:03 < dooglus> I'd have add another directory I guess
11:03 < dooglus> or maybe just specify 'src' instead of 'src/synfig'
11:10 < dooglus> INPUT                  = ../etl/ETL src ../synfigstudio/src
11:10 < dooglus> seems to work well
11:10 < dooglus> unless ../synfigstudio doesn't exist, in which case it breaks everything.
11:14 < pabs3> ya
11:18 < dooglus> what I don't understand is why in etl:
11:18 < dooglus> /ubuntu-root/home/chris/programs/synfig/svn/etl/ETL/_misc.h:74: Warning: Found unknown command `\fixme'
11:18 < dooglus> but the \fixme's in synfig are all fine...
11:19 < dooglus> is fixme something built into doxygen?  (it's not mentioned in their docs, I don't think) or specific to synfig (I can't find it there, either)
11:26 < pabs3> its in the doxygen.cfg
11:26 < pabs3> one of them anyway
11:27 < dooglus> it is?
11:27 < dooglus> I don't see it
11:27 < dooglus> I thought the problem was that the \fixme was outside of any function
11:27 < dooglus> so I moved it inside, and the warning went away (svn r316)
11:28 < pabs3> hmm, I thought it was
11:29 < dooglus> I'll fix the rest of those doxygen warnings.
11:29 < dooglus> they seem like simple typos mostly
11:30 < pabs3> cool
11:31 < pabs3> dooglus: if darco can't get dyloxin going, are you able to make yer logs web-accessible? I'm thinking for when I'm full-time I may not be able to be on irc
11:32 < dooglus> sure
11:33 < pabs3> coolies
11:42 < dooglus> I've set up a crontab to make each new log available from 00:05 each day
11:42 < dooglus> (UTC+0100)
11:43 < dooglus> in http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/logs/
11:43 < pabs3> awesome, thatnks
11:44 < dooglus> seems they've been indexed by google now, too
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11:57 < Bombe> UTC+1? So you're from Europe somewhere, dooglus?
11:58 < dooglus> I'm in the Czech Republic, yes
11:58 < Bombe> Been there once. Great beer. :)
11:58 < dooglus> yes, but it's all the same
11:59 < dooglus> I miss warm flat dark english beer
11:59 < Bombe> You're the first person ever to _miss_ English beer.
11:59 < dooglus> I very much doubt that :)
11:59 < Bombe> English beer is, like, "so, what's left in the sink after washing the dishes?".
12:00 < dooglus> that's the one
12:00 < Bombe> You're disgusting. :)
12:00 < dooglus> heh
12:00 < dooglus> http://www.theakstons.co.uk/LA/OldPeculier.htm
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16:17 < Dudy> wow, I never knew synfig had an irc channel :D Where have I been?
17:01 < dooglus> hi
17:01 < dooglus> I never knew synfig had users :)
17:06 < Dudy> oh, you assume so much :D
17:07 < Dudy> actually, once leopard comes out for osx, I hope to help the imendio crew get tablet support on native gtk+ so I can start doing some funky tablet support in synfig
17:07 < Dudy> but I'm also struggling to get it to do what I want :-)
17:08 < Dudy> hopefully I'll be able to be a 'user' eventually, but for now, I can't even figure out how to do a bouncing ball in synfig xD
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17:44 < dooglus> I've not used it much either
17:44 < Dudy> oh? so, why lurk here then?
17:45 < dooglus> well, I started trying to use it, but kept finding bugs everywhere I looked
17:45 < dooglus> so I stayed around to help fix the bugs
17:46 < Dudy> ah... good show, then :D
17:46 < dooglus> what's the problem with the bouncing ball?  the acceleration?
17:46 < Dudy> actually, I can get the bouncing ball to animate. I just never figured out how to export the animation
17:46 < Dudy> :D
17:47 < dooglus> file > render
17:47 < dooglus> it was broken in the most recent release, but is apparently good in the current svn version
17:47 < Dudy> *slaps forehead*
17:48 < Dudy> well, does the current svn compile on macosx?
17:48 < dooglus> I believe so
17:48  * Dudy does a victory boogie and writes that down in his todo list
17:48 < dooglus> madsen has been attempting to get a good OSX build together
17:48 < Dudy> oh? Well, if he's around, I'll hopefully have him help me with it
17:49 < Dudy> I'm assuming he means a 'universal binary' of sorts?
17:49 < dooglus> the lack of an OSX build is the main thing holding back the new release
17:49 < dooglus> yes, that's the word I was looking for
17:51 < dooglus> hmm, maybe not universal yet.
17:52 < dooglus> in http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/logs/2007/%23synfig-2007-03-09.log at 07:06, he said: Ok, synfig 0.61.05-275 built on OS X... Now I just need to make it call the right libs and then we have an OS X (Tiger) Intel binary at least... I really hope I can make it universal at some point.
17:52 < dooglus> does your bouncing ball pick up speed as it falls?
17:53 < Dudy> yup
17:53 < dooglus> how'd you do that?
17:53 < Dudy> and stretches to exaggerate
17:54 < Dudy> there's a way to modify the curve of interpolation between keyframes
17:56 < dooglus> the keyframe properties?
17:56 < dooglus> tension, bias, continuity, temporal torsion?
17:56 < dooglus> um - temporal tension
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18:03 < Dudy> oy... sorry
18:04 < Dudy> got snagged
18:04 < Dudy> I'm back now... uh. Lessee
18:04 < dooglus> I can select a keyframe
18:04 < dooglus> then click 'keyframe properties'
18:04 < Dudy> right...
18:04 < Dudy> that should be it
18:04 < dooglus> but it seems that I can't set the keyframes to have different properties than each other
18:05 < Dudy> you can see a graph of the interpolation if you're on the right screen
18:05 < dooglus> maybe because the 'ok' button doesn't work
18:05 < dooglus> I don't see a graph, no
18:05 < Dudy> ah, that's the weird thing... lemme see what I did to trick that
18:07 < Dudy> hmmm
18:11 < dooglus> ah, I think I found it
18:11 < dooglus> the 'curves' dialog, right?
18:12 < Dudy> I believe so
18:12 < Dudy> I just forget how I nabbed those curves and made them behave differently
18:13 < dooglus> you right-clicked on the little green waypoint circles in the timeline?
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18:16 < Dudy> let's see
18:16 < Dudy> I got the waypoints and all
18:16 < Dudy> hmmm
18:17 < Dudy> now to turn it into a curved line instead of linear
18:18 < Dudy> got it!
18:18 < dooglus> do tell :)
18:19 < Dudy> you right click on them, and under the "in" and "out" bits, you change the continuity to change the degree of continuity
18:19 < Dudy> 1 = 1st derivative continuity
18:19 < Dudy> and 2 = 2nd... and so on
18:19 < Dudy> and the tension is apparently how strongly the smoothness is applied
18:19 < dooglus> what about the 'interpolation' value?
18:19 < Dudy> try setting both to 1
18:20 < Dudy> don't see that on mine
18:20 < Dudy> I clicked on the waypoint, selected "edit waypoint"
18:20 < Dudy> on the waypoint editor, I found the curves stuff
18:20 < dooglus> this is how it looks to me: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/Screenshot-Waypoint%20Editor.png
18:22 < Dudy> oh! it does look different... but then, I'm on a mac
18:23 < Dudy> okay, you set interpolation to whatever type you want... I use the tcb_smooth
18:23 < dooglus> what version do you have?  (it should be in the 'about' box)
18:23 < Dudy> linear will, of course, not be linear
18:24 < Dudy> 0.61.04
18:24 < Dudy> :D
18:29 < dooglus>  I think the latest release is 0.61.05, but maybe there's no Mac version
18:29 < dooglus> hopefully the Mac build will be sorted out soon
18:32 < dooglus> can I get a copy of your .sif file?
18:33 < Dudy> doh!
18:33 < Dudy> didn't save it *snerk*
18:33 < Dudy> but you got it to work, right?
18:34 < dooglus> no
18:34 < dooglus> I can't see any combination of setting which make it work
18:34 < dooglus> nor any way of controlling the 'x' and 'y' separately
18:34 < dooglus> for instance, I want the x to increase linearly while the y bounces up and down
18:39 < Dudy> okay... let me think for a sec
18:39 < Dudy> so, did you change the interpolators to something else?
18:39 < Dudy> from linear?
18:42 < dooglus> yes
18:44 < dooglus> oooh!
18:44 < dooglus> a negative temporal tension gives more like what I want
18:44 < Dudy> aha! I forgot you can do that :-]
18:45 < Dudy> you might just want to use several keyframes to get the behavior you need for now
18:55 < Dudy> wellp, I'm glad if I helped you out. I accept payments in batches of cookie dough, fyi
18:58 < dooglus> heh
18:59 < dooglus> thanks for your help
18:59 < Dudy> no prob :-)
18:59 < dooglus> it's quite a long process just to make a ball bounce, eh?
18:59 < Dudy> and thank you for mentioning the render option. I'm currently feeling like a fool ;-D
19:01 < dooglus> here's my 'bouncing ball'
19:01 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/bounce.gif
19:01 < dooglus> it accelerates horizontally as well as vertically.  bah!
19:02 < Dudy> yeah... but that's okay
19:02 < Dudy> looks cool nonetheless :)
19:02 < Dudy> I'm sure it'll get you a girlfriend :D
19:02 < dooglus> lol
19:03 < dooglus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkhAzN1a2kI
19:03 < Dudy> ah cool... short and sweet
19:05 < dooglus> http://youtube.com/watch?v=ljmQARJccYk is a little longer, but less dynamic
19:12 < Dudy> great to see you're getting a handle on it
19:12 < Dudy> :D I'm too lazy to do a gear
19:12 < Dudy> I'd be like... "Hmmm... one... three teeth. Good enough. The other part has magical inviso-teeth... woo!"
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19:20 < dooglus> heh
19:20 < dooglus> there was a lot of copying and pasting involved
19:20 < dooglus> and rotation layers
19:22 < zloc> hello everyone
19:22 < dooglus> hi zloc :)
19:23 < zloc> just looking at some of your stuff on youtube dooglus 
19:23 < dooglus> all 4 videos?
19:23 < zloc> gears and snakes at least
19:23 < dooglus> oh, the snakes wasn't a synfig thing
19:23 < zloc> didn't look like it
19:23 < dooglus> that was a contest on the DROD forum
19:24 < zloc> we are doing a lug on sat and it should cover DV - dvgrab, kino, kdenlive : 2D animation - synfig, ktoon | stopmotion animation - stopmotion
19:25 < zloc> that did not all come out on this end
19:25 < dooglus> do you use synfig?
19:25 < zloc> we are doing a lug on sat and it should cover DV - dvgrab, kino, kdenlive : 2D animation - synfig, ktoon | stopmotion animation - stopmotion
19:25 < dooglus> I see up to 'ktoon | stopmotion animation - stopmotion
19:25 < zloc> have known about it for a good while now.
19:26 < zloc> just made a little synfig animation yesterday for the upcomming lug
19:26 < dooglus> can I see it?
19:26 < zloc> can I dcc you?
19:26 < dooglus> I don't think so, no
19:26 < zloc> or send via email?
19:26 < dooglus> but you email me at gmail.com
19:27 < zloc> dooglus@ ???
19:27 < dooglus> yes
19:27 < zloc> forwarding now
19:27 < dooglus> thanks
19:28 < zloc> sent
19:28 < dooglus> received, thanks
19:28 < dooglus> did you know your first name is lowercased in your mail account?
19:28 < zloc> yes
19:29 < zloc> that's how i like it
19:29 < dooglus> fine :)
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19:30 < zloc> real name is Andrew but was supposed to be drew from the break - long family story...
19:31 < zloc> I couldn't figure how to group the two shapes yesterday...
19:31 < igli> sup dooglus :)
19:35 < dooglus> hi igli
19:36 < dooglus> select the 2 shapes, then right-click one of them in the layers dialog and 'encapsulate'
19:36 < dooglus> I was wondering about that
19:36 < igli> man that should be called `group'
19:37 < zloc> I was just reading that on the wiki, thanks - will experiment now.
19:37 < igli> dooglus: what are these valgrind errors i read about?
19:37 < zloc> there is a group which is grayed (greyed) out.
19:38 < dooglus> igli: I don't know if there are any left now
19:38 < dooglus> you know what valgrind is, right?
19:38 < igli> so? it's on the SoC bit
19:38 < igli> er y
19:39 < igli> mem debugger iirc
19:39 < dooglus> yes
19:39 < dooglus> when I first ran synfig, it used to crash a lot
19:39 < dooglus> I ran it under valgrind and there were lots of complaints from valgrind about improper memory accesses
19:40 < dooglus> I fixed the ones I came across, but wouldn't be surprised if there are more
19:41 < dooglus> zloc: you don't see 'encapsulate' when you right-click on a layer in the layers dialog?
19:41 < zloc> yes
19:41 < zloc> I see it, just encapsulated two shapes
19:41 < zloc> but how do I now select the encapsulation to move together?
19:41 < zloc> must be brain dead today
19:43 < dooglus> click the new 'inline canvas' layer that contains the two shapes
19:43 < dooglus> it has a single green duck for moving it around
19:44 < igli> dooglus: ok i'll try it, think i have kvalgrind somewhere
19:44 < zloc> oops - don't seem to have encapsulated properly
19:44 < dooglus> you can drag the polygons into the inline canvas in the layers dialog
19:45 < dooglus> it's not especially clear what's inside the encapsulation and what isn't - you need to look at the indentation of the icons to tell
19:45 < zloc> so, I cant seem to encapsulate 2 polygons
19:46 < zloc> am I not selecting properly, or not rightclicking in the correct place
19:46 < zloc> did it!
19:46 < zloc> oops, perhaps not
19:47 < zloc> yes - perhaps so!
19:47 < dooglus> do you see a small triangle to the left of the 'inline canvas' layer name?
19:47 < dooglus> you can click it to collapse and expand the layer
19:47 < dooglus> you don't see the triangle if the layer is empty
19:48 < zloc> I was making multiple mistakes
19:48 < zloc> the last was to try and select in the "canvas" instead of the layer area after encapsulation.
19:49 < dooglus> yes
19:49 < dooglus> I was making the same mistakes by not telling you about that...
19:51 < zloc> can't remove a key frame - segfaults
19:53 < dooglus> that's fixed in subversion
19:53 < dooglus> which OS are you using?
19:53 < zloc> a version of ubuntu
19:53 < dooglus> heh
19:53 < zloc> just restarting the project - not much to lose...
19:53 < dooglus> I uninstalled my last ubuntu yesterday, as luck would have it
19:54 < zloc> these days I tend to run some ubuntu and some debian as well as minor others...
19:54 < dooglus> it takes about 12 minutes to build synfig+studio from scratch though on a newish pc
19:54 < zloc> this one is very old
19:54 < dooglus> what kind of ubuntu is it?
19:55 < zloc> Welcome to Ubuntu 6.06 LTS!
19:55 < dooglus> ok, probably too old to like a debian sid binary then
19:59 < dooglus> there have been quite a lot of crashing bugs fixed since the last release
20:00 < dooglus> if you want to build a recent version from subversion, there are instructions here: http://wiki.synfig.com/Build_instructions
20:07 < zloc> I htink I built from the latest downloads on this box a few days ago.
20:10 < zloc> gotta run, thanks for chatting...
20:10 < dooglus> later
20:10 < dooglus> I'd be interested to know what version you have though
20:10 < dooglus> help > about
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 16 00:00:12 2007