--- Log opened Tue Mar 20 00:00:02 2007
00:17 -!- omry [n=omry@l192-115-19-188.broadband.actcom.net.il] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:43 -!- xerakko [n=xerakko@debian/developer/xerakko] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:04 -!- Dudy [n=Dudymas@JJW311.rh.psu.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
01:59 -!- pabs3 [n=pabs@dsl-220-235-163-152.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #synfig
02:14 -!- pxegeek [n=Miranda@71.59.140.184] has joined #synfig
02:22 -!- omry [n=omry@l192-115-27-205.broadband.actcom.net.il] has joined #synfig
02:23 -!- igli [n=igli@82.152.192.45] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:52 -!- Dudy [n=Dudymas@JJW311.rh.psu.edu] has joined #synfig
04:26 -!- Dudy [n=Dudymas@JJW311.rh.psu.edu] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.2/2007021917]"]
04:46 -!- crazy_bus [n=philip@CPE-143-238-71-123.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #synfig
04:51 -!- pxegeek [n=Miranda@71.59.140.184] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:04 -!- pxegeek [n=Miranda@c-71-59-140-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #synfig
05:08 < pxegeek> zloc - were you able to add a timeline to your canvas?
05:09 < pabs3> dooglus answered him a bit later
05:09 < pxegeek> I saw, but I didn't see if he was successful in following Dooglus' directions
05:10 < pabs3> ah
05:10 < pxegeek> was wondering if he was seeing the same problems as me ;)
05:11 < pxegeek> he's probably on linux though.  I think me and Atrus are the only windows (l)users.
05:34 -!- crazy_bus [n=philip@CPE-143-238-71-123.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
05:40 -!- pxegeek [n=Miranda@c-71-59-140-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit []
08:14 -!- xerakko [n=xerakko@98.Red-83-61-143.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #synfig
08:38 -!- xerakko [n=xerakko@debian/developer/xerakko] has quit ["Me'n vaig"]
10:38 -!- crazy_bus [n=philip@CPE-143-238-71-123.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #synfig
12:04 < pabs3> ah, another bug I saw and ignored :)
13:36 -!- crazy_bus [n=philip@CPE-143-238-71-123.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:09 < dooglus> which one?
15:10 < zloc> pabs3, I did not see the answer and my history does not seem to be big enough... ( dooglus - did you explain how to extend a timeline?)
15:11 < pabs3> zloc: irc logs are here: http://tinyurl.com/ox5mn
15:11 < pabs3> dooglus: the one you reported today :)
15:11 < zloc> thanks
15:11 < pabs3> zloc: in short, edit -> properties iirc
15:12 -!- wildhostile [n=chatzill@ALamentin-104-1-40-194.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #synfig
15:12 < zloc> pabs3, thanks, it couldn't get much simpler than that...
15:13 < pabs3> hullo wildhostile 
15:13 < wildhostile> good morning
15:13 < wildhostile> yep pabs3 
15:14 < pabs3> wildhostile: did you find the solution to your synfig compiling problems?
15:14 < wildhostile> non i don't
15:15 < wildhostile> i found a repository for fedora core 6
15:15 < wildhostile> did you know it?
15:15 < wildhostile> http://math.ifi.unizh.ch/fedora/
15:15 < pabs3> for synfig??
15:15 < pabs3> oh, cool
15:16 < wildhostile> there are synfig packages in it
15:16 < pabs3> I'll add that to the download page
15:16 < wildhostile> but
15:16 < wildhostile> i can't install it
15:16 < pabs3> oh?
15:16 < wildhostile> there is a yum error
15:17 < wildhostile> libavformat.so.50
15:17 < wildhostile> but i have this library
15:18 < pabs3> hmm
15:19 < pabs3> perhaps contact the author of the packages
15:19 < dooglus> what happened about trying to get it to compile?
15:19 < dooglus> did you stay stuck on the ./configure error?
15:19 < wildhostile> always the same error dooglus 
15:20 < wildhostile> i have tried the revision 360
15:20 < dooglus> I'm not sure why we need to check for all 3 packages at once
15:20 < dooglus> it would be better to check them separately - then we can tell you exactly which one is missing
15:20 < wildhostile> heu
15:20 < wildhostile> wait
15:21 < dooglus> can you try replacing synfigstudio/config/configure.ac with http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/configure.ac ?
15:21 < wildhostile> i didn't understand
15:21 < wildhostile> ok
15:21 < wildhostile> wait
15:21 < dooglus> you'll need to ./bootstrap again after
15:22 < wildhostile> wait
15:22 < wildhostile> i try that
15:22 < wildhostile> just a minute
15:27 < wildhostile> ok dooglus 
15:27 < wildhostile> it seems it doesn't find synfig
15:28 < wildhostile> i show you that
15:28 < wildhostile> checking for synfig... configure: error:  ** Unable to set up dependent libraries
15:28 < wildhostile> i have a question
15:29 < wildhostile> what is the difference beetwen sudo and su command ?
15:30 < dooglus> su lets you run commands as a user if you know their password
15:30 < wildhostile> ah ok
15:30 < dooglus> sudo lets you run commands for any user the system administrator has configured it to let you run, maybe by specifying your own password
15:30 < dooglus> sudo is much more configurable
15:30 < dooglus> see "man sudoers"
15:30 < wildhostile> ok
15:31 < wildhostile> ok
15:31 < wildhostile> i will see
15:31 < wildhostile> but the error couldn't come there?
15:31 < dooglus> no, we've checked that you are able to install things OK
15:31 < wildhostile> i used su command to make install syngig
15:32 < wildhostile> ok
15:32 < dooglus> both su and sudo will run stuff as root, it's just a matter of who can use it, and how
15:32 < wildhostile> ok
15:33 < wildhostile> so apparently synfigstudio doesn't recognise synfig
15:33 < wildhostile> but it is installed
15:34 < dooglus> can you try downloading my configure.ac again, and see what error you get this time?
15:34 < dooglus> it was checking synfig first before
15:34 < dooglus> not it checks it last
15:34 < dooglus> s/not/now/
15:34 < wildhostile> ah ok
15:34 < wildhostile> ok
15:34 < wildhostile> wait
15:34 < wildhostile> i try
15:38 < wildhostile> well
15:38 < wildhostile> it becomes more clear
15:38 < dooglus> what does it say that time?
15:39 < wildhostile> checking for sigc++-2.0... yes
15:39 < wildhostile> checking SIGC_CFLAGS... -I/usr/include/sigc++-2.0 -I/usr/lib/sigc++-2.0/include  
15:39 < wildhostile> checking SIGC_LIBS... -lsigc-2.0  
15:39 < wildhostile> checking for ETL... yes
15:39 < wildhostile> checking ETL_CFLAGS...  
15:39 < wildhostile> checking ETL_LIBS... -lpthread  
15:39 < wildhostile> checking for synfig... configure: error:  ** Unable to set up dependent libraries
15:39 < dooglus> right, so it's synfig then...
15:39 < dooglus> but you do have:
15:39 < dooglus> ls -l /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/synfig.pc
15:39 < wildhostile> yes
15:39 < wildhostile> yes i have
15:40 < dooglus> can you read it?
15:40 < wildhostile> heu
15:40 < wildhostile> wait
15:40 < wildhostile> i show you that
15:40 < wildhostile> [wildhostile@localhost synfigstudio]$ ls -l /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/synfig.pc
15:40 < wildhostile> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 261 mar 20 01:00 /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/synfig.pc
15:41 < wildhostile> can I?
15:41 < dooglus> everyone can read that - that's ok
15:41 < dooglus> I don't know if this is related, but my ETL_CFLAGS are different:
15:41 < dooglus> checking for ETL... yes
15:41 < dooglus> checking ETL_CFLAGS... -I/usr/local/include
15:41 < dooglus> checking ETL_LIBS... -lpthread
15:41 < wildhostile> ah ok
15:41 < wildhostile> what is yours?
15:42 < wildhostile> ok excuse
15:42 < wildhostile> maybe i can make a copy to /usr/local/include
15:43 < dooglus> wait
15:43 < dooglus> can you show me your synfig.pc file?
15:43 < wildhostile> i can try too install all things as root
15:43 < wildhostile> ok 
15:43 < wildhostile> wait
15:43 < dooglus> the 'requires' line is enough I think
15:44 < wildhostile> ok
15:45 < wildhostile> here it is:
15:45 < wildhostile> prefix=/usr/local
15:45 < wildhostile> exec_prefix=${prefix}
15:45 < wildhostile> libdir=${exec_prefix}/lib
15:45 < wildhostile> includedir=${prefix}/include/synfig-0.0
15:45 < wildhostile> Name: synfig
15:45 < wildhostile> Description: Synfig Core
15:45 < wildhostile> Requires:  OpenEXR ETL libxml++-2.6 sigc++-2.0
15:45 < wildhostile> Version: 0.61.05
15:45 < wildhostile> Libs: -L${libdir} -lsynfig
15:45 < wildhostile> Cflags:  -I${includedir}
15:45 < dooglus> do you have a file /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libxml++-2.6.pc ?  ie. is libxml++-2.6-dev installed?
15:45 < wildhostile> i don't think
15:45 < wildhostile> wait
15:50 < dooglus> I think you must, or it wouldn't be in your synfig.pc file
15:50 < wildhostile> what i have is different i thing
15:50 < wildhostile> think
15:50 < wildhostile> wait
15:51 < wildhostile> the yum command is a little slow
15:51 < wildhostile> ok
15:51 < wildhostile> here is what i have
15:51 < wildhostile> Installed Packages
15:51 < wildhostile> Name   : libxml++
15:52 < wildhostile> Arch   : i386
15:52 < wildhostile> Version: 2.14.0
15:52 < wildhostile> Release: 1.1.fc6
15:52 < wildhostile> Size   : 209 k
15:52 < wildhostile> Repo   : installed
15:52 < wildhostile> Summary: C++ wrapper for the libxml2 XML parser library
15:52 < wildhostile> Description:
15:52 < wildhostile> libxml++ is a C++ wrapper for the libxml2 XML parser library. It's original
15:52 < wildhostile> author is Ari Johnson and it is currently maintained by Christophe de Vienne
15:52 < wildhostile> and Murray Cumming.
15:52 < wildhostile> Name   : libxml++-devel
15:52 < wildhostile> Arch   : i386
15:52 < wildhostile> Version: 2.14.0
15:52 < wildhostile> Release: 1.1.fc6
15:52 < wildhostile> Size   : 1.5 M
15:52 < wildhostile> Repo   : installed
15:52 < wildhostile> Summary: Development files for libxml++
15:52 < wildhostile> Description:
15:52 < wildhostile> This package contains the headers and libraries for libxml++ development.
15:53 < pabs3> thats the old libxml++, you want libxml++ 2.6
15:54 < wildhostile> why not
15:54 < dooglus> synfig's configure should have complained, shouldn't it?
15:54 < wildhostile> where can i take it?
15:55 < dooglus> does 'locate libxml++-2.6.pc' find anything?
15:55 < wildhostile> i didn't understand dooglus 
15:55 < wildhostile> i have the 2.14 version no?
15:55 < dooglus> the stuff between ' and ' - it's a command
15:56 < wildhostile> ah ok
15:56 < wildhostile> excuse
15:56 < wildhostile> wait
15:57 < wildhostile> in my documents
15:57 < wildhostile> "/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libxml++-2.6.pc"
15:58 < pabs3> hmm, synfig can use either 1.0 or 2.6
15:58 < wildhostile> i have it in /usr/lib
15:59 < wildhostile> ont in /usr/local/lib
15:59 < wildhostile> not*
15:59 < dooglus> that's right.
15:59 < dooglus> you have libxml++-2.6 installed then
15:59 < wildhostile> ok
15:59 < dooglus> so the only other thing is OpenEXR
16:00 < wildhostile> maybe
16:00 < dooglus> I don't know what that is
16:00 < dooglus> my synfig.pc doesn't mention it
16:00 < wildhostile> ah ok
16:00 < pabs3> it is the HDR format that synfig supports
16:00 < wildhostile> synfig doesn't use openEXR?
16:00 < pabs3> one of the plugins uses it
16:00 < dooglus> I didn't build mine with openEXR support
16:01 < wildhostile> ah ok
16:01 < dooglus> but again, synfig's configure script will check whether you have openexr installed, and use it if you do
16:01 < wildhostile> i can remove it
16:01 < wildhostile> and try again
16:02 < dooglus> you can ./configure --without-openexr
16:02 < dooglus> instead of removing it
16:02 < dooglus> but that'll mean rebuilding synfig
16:02 < wildhostile> and etl?
16:02 < dooglus> no
16:02 < wildhostile> ok
16:02 < dooglus> check that you have libopenexr-dev: usr/lib/pkgconfig/OpenEXR.pc
16:03 < dooglus> installed
16:03 < wildhostile> wait
16:03 < pabs3> why would synfig build against something fine and then synfigstudio not do the same?
16:04 < dooglus> I've no idea
16:04 < wildhostile> neither do i
16:04 < dooglus> I don't know if you saw or not, but I split his configure.ac's check for ETL+synfig+sigc into 3 separate checks, and only the synfig check failed
16:05 < pabs3> ya
16:05 < wildhostile> i have OpenEXR installed
16:05 < wildhostile> here is it:
16:05 < wildhostile> prefix=/usr
16:05 < wildhostile> exec_prefix=/usr
16:05 < wildhostile> libdir=/usr/lib
16:05 < wildhostile> includedir=/usr/include
16:05 < wildhostile> OpenEXR_includedir=/usr/include/OpenEXR
16:05 < wildhostile> Name: OpenEXR
16:05 < wildhostile> Description: OpenEXR image library
16:05 < wildhostile> Version: 1.4.0
16:05 < wildhostile> Libs: -L${libdir} -lIlmImf -lImath -lHalf -lIex
16:05 < wildhostile> Libs.private: -lz -lpthread
16:05 < wildhostile> Cflags: -I${OpenEXR_includedir}
16:05 < dooglus> wildhostile: here's an idea...
16:05 < pabs3> wildhostile: what does "pkg-config --libs synfig" print?
16:05 < dooglus> what does this show you?
16:05 < dooglus> pkg-config --cflags synfig
16:06 < dooglus> heh
16:06 < pabs3> jinx
16:06 < wildhostile> ?
16:06 < wildhostile> i don't understand
16:06 < dooglus> wildhostile: we both came up with the same next step together...
16:06 < dooglus> run one of our pkg-config commands
16:06 < wildhostile> ah ok
16:06 < wildhostile> wait
16:07 < wildhostile> aye
16:07 < wildhostile> pkg-config --libs synfig
16:07 < wildhostile> [wildhostile@localhost ~]$ pkg-config --libs synfig
16:07 < wildhostile> Package synfig was not found in the pkg-config search path.
16:07 < wildhostile> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `synfig.pc'
16:07 < wildhostile> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
16:07 < wildhostile> No package 'synfig' found
16:08 < wildhostile> it doesn't fing synfig?
16:08 < wildhostile> find*
16:08 < pabs3> what does locate synfig.pc find?
16:08 < dooglus> it's in /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig
16:09 < pabs3> you probably need to do this: export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig
16:09 < wildhostile> [wildhostile@localhost ~]$ locate synfig.pc
16:09 < wildhostile> /home/wildhostile/Documents/Linux/Logiciels/Multimedias/Synfig/synfig06106/synfig-0.61.05/synfig.pc.in
16:09 < wildhostile> /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/synfig.pc
16:09 < dooglus> it found ETL.pc OK though?
16:09 < dooglus> maybe there's an ETL.pc in /usr/lib/pkgconfig?
16:10 < dooglus> what does 'locate ETL.pc' find?
16:10 < pabs3> most problems building synfig seem to be problems with platforms where pkg-config doesn't look in the right places
16:10 < wildhostile> ihave too
16:10  * pabs3 adds something to the FAQ
16:11 < wildhostile> i have two
16:11 < wildhostile> [wildhostile@localhost ~]$ locate ETL.pc
16:11 < wildhostile> /home/wildhostile/Documents/Linux/Logiciels/Multimedias/Synfig/synfig06106/ETL-0.04.08/ETL.pc
16:11 < wildhostile> /home/wildhostile/Documents/Linux/Logiciels/Multimedias/Synfig/synfig06106/ETL-0.04.08/ETL.pc.in
16:11 < wildhostile> /usr/lib/pkgconfig/ETL.pc
16:11 < wildhostile> /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/ETL.pc
16:11 < pabs3> ah, that explains it then
16:12 < dooglus> can you ask 'yum' which package owns /usr/lib/pkgconfig/ETL.pc?
16:12 < wildhostile> heu
16:12 < wildhostile> how can i ask him that?
16:12 < dooglus> I don't speak yum-ish
16:12 < wildhostile> i don't know
16:12 < wildhostile> lol
16:12 < wildhostile> mdr
16:13 < dooglus> try pabs3's export command
16:13 < dooglus> 						printf("iter2->color.get_a() = %.2f\n", iter2->color.get_a());
16:13 < dooglus> 						printf("iter2->color.get_a() = %.2f\n", iter2->color.get_a());
16:13 < dooglus> oops
16:13 < dooglus> PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig
16:13 < wildhostile> ok
16:13 < dooglus> guess what I'm debugging in the other window...  :)
16:13 < wildhostile> lol
16:13 < wildhostile> ok
16:14 < wildhostile> but when i try that it will not modify my path?
16:14 < wildhostile> i don't know that sort of command
16:15 < wildhostile> i configure synfigstudio after?
16:16 < wildhostile> i do this as root?
16:16 < dooglus> you probably want to stick it in ~/.bashrc, so it runs every time you start a new terminal
16:16 < dooglus> then start a new terminal
16:17 < dooglus> then try the pkg_config command again to make sure it works noe
16:17 < dooglus> now
16:17 < wildhostile> dooglus 
16:17 < wildhostile> give me the easier method
16:18 < wildhostile> i do run the command as root?
16:20 < dooglus> no
16:20 < dooglus> as you
16:20 < wildhostile> wait
16:20 < pabs3> dooglus: I'm guessing that crash with the Color function you added
16:20 < wildhostile> ok i do the command
16:20 < wildhostile> ah
16:20 < wildhostile> ok
16:20 < wildhostile> it is donne
16:20 < wildhostile> done
16:20 < wildhostile> but there is nothing
16:21 < dooglus> pabs3: good guess, but no, I've given up on hoping to understand that.  I think it must be a symptom of a pre-existing bug that my change turned into a crasher, but time will tell.
16:21 < dooglus> pabs3: I'm trying to understand how the gradient stuff works, and why there are stripes in my looped gradients...
16:21 < pabs3> ahyes
16:21 < dooglus> wildhostile: the command is quiet.  but then try the pkg-config thing
16:21 < wildhostile> ah
16:22 < wildhostile> wait
16:22 < pabs3> after midnite, zzzzz
16:22 < dooglus> g'nite
16:23 < wildhostile> here it is:
16:24 < wildhostile> [wildhostile@localhost ~]$ pkg-config --libs synfig
16:24 < wildhostile> Package synfig was not found in the pkg-config search path.
16:24 < wildhostile> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `synfig.pc'
16:24 < wildhostile> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
16:24 < wildhostile> No package 'synfig' found
16:24 < wildhostile> (what time is it at home?)
16:24 < dooglus> it's 16:24pm here
16:24 < pabs3> 00:24 here, bye
16:24 -!- pabs3 [n=pabs@dsl-220-235-163-152.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit ["zzz"]
16:24 < wildhostile> pm = afternoon ?
16:24 < dooglus> yes
16:24 < wildhostile> ah ok
16:25 < dooglus> I shouldn't write 16:24pm
16:25 < dooglus> it's 16:24 - or 4:24pm
16:25 < wildhostile> where do you live?
16:25 < dooglus> in Prague, Czech Republic
16:25 < wildhostile> ah ok!!!
16:25 < dooglus> you?
16:26 < wildhostile> martinique 
16:26 < wildhostile> a French department
16:27 < wildhostile> you are english?
16:27 < dooglus> yes
16:27 < dooglus> I didn't realise Martinique was part of France
16:27 < wildhostile> you know Martinique?
16:27 < dooglus> not much
16:27 < dooglus> but I know wikipedia :)
16:27 < wildhostile> lol
16:27 < wildhostile> ok
16:28 < dooglus> did you run that 'export' command?
16:28 < wildhostile> yes
16:28 < dooglus> export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig
16:28 < wildhostile> as user
16:29 < dooglus> the 'export' is needed, and I missed it off last time
16:29 < wildhostile> heu no
16:29 < wildhostile> wiat
16:29 < wildhostile> wait
16:29 < wildhostile> very good
16:29 < wildhostile> here is the result
16:29 < wildhostile> [wildhostile@localhost ~]$ pkg-config --libs synfig
16:29 < wildhostile> -L/usr/local/lib -L/lib -lsynfig -lIlmImf -lImath -lHalf -lIex -lpthread -lxml++-2.6 -lxml2 -lglibmm-2.4 -lgobject-2.0 -lsigc-2.0 -lglib-2.0 
16:30 < dooglus> ok
16:30 < dooglus> add that 'export' line to your .bashrc file
16:30 < dooglus> then you won't need to remember it
16:30 < dooglus> echo "export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig" >> ~/.bashrc
16:30 < dooglus> that will do it
16:30 < wildhostile> ah ok
16:30 < wildhostile> wait
16:31 < wildhostile> as user?
16:31 < dooglus> yes
16:31 < wildhostile> ok
16:31 < wildhostile> it is donne
16:31 < wildhostile> done
16:32 < dooglus> everything is as user, except "make install"
16:32 < wildhostile> ok
16:32 < wildhostile> i rebuild synfigstudio?
16:32 < dooglus> you should go back and build synfig I think
16:32 < wildhostile> ok
16:32 < dooglus> because last time it used the wrong ETL headers probably
16:32 < wildhostile> ok
16:33 < wildhostile> it is not necessary to build etl?
16:33 < dooglus> no
16:33 < wildhostile> ok
16:33 < dooglus> etl is just a bunch of header files
16:33 < dooglus> there's no building involved there
16:33 < wildhostile> ok
16:34 < wildhostile> i want to test synfig to make little animation for videos
16:34 < wildhostile> i use cinelerra
16:34 < wildhostile> do you know it?
16:34 < dooglus> no, I don't
16:34 < wildhostile> it's a video editing software
16:35 < dooglus> ok
16:35 < dooglus> what kind of videos do you make?
16:35 < wildhostile> it's a very good software
16:35 < wildhostile> for me 
16:35 < wildhostile> homemade
16:35 < wildhostile> little presentations
16:36 < wildhostile> and i want to show that there are lot of possibilities on linux
16:37 < wildhostile> you earn your life with synfig?
16:37 < wildhostile> what is your job?
16:38 < wildhostile> http://www.heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3
16:39 < dooglus> I don't have a job at the moment
16:39 < dooglus> I don't think anyone is making any money from synfig
16:39 < wildhostile> so do i
16:39 < dooglus> neither do you?
16:40 < wildhostile> it is not enough know
16:41 < wildhostile> do you know jahshaka?
16:42 < wildhostile> http://www.jahshaka.org/
16:43 < dooglus> I've seen that page before, but not seen the software, no
16:44 < wildhostile> ok
16:46 < wildhostile> what is your formation dooglus ?
16:46 < dooglus> formation?
16:46 < wildhostile> heu
16:46 < dooglus> I'm mostly carbon, I think
16:47 < wildhostile> lol
16:47 < dooglus> lots of water too...
16:47 < wildhostile> what studies did you done?
16:47 < dooglus> oh, I see :)
16:47 < wildhostile> lol
16:47 < dooglus> my degree is in computer software
16:47 < wildhostile> ah ok
16:48 < wildhostile> especially in linux?
16:48 < dooglus> no, I don't think I saw a single linux box while I was doing my degree
16:48 < dooglus> possibly because linux wasn't invented at the time, come to think of it :)
16:48 < dooglus> lots of sun workstations
16:49 < wildhostile> ah
16:49 < wildhostile> you work on linux?
16:49 < dooglus> my PC at home was running Windows 3.1
16:49 < wildhostile> ah
16:49 < dooglus> most recently I've been working on HP-UX
16:49 < dooglus> but whatever, really...
16:50 < wildhostile> now what is your system?
16:50 < dooglus> it's a debian unstable laptop
16:50 < wildhostile> ok
16:51 < dooglus> this one: http://laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=966
16:52 < wildhostile> so you know linux system very well?
16:52 < dooglus> that depends
16:53 < dooglus> there's lots of it I know nothing about
16:53 < dooglus> but then there's quite a lot I know, too
16:53 < dooglus> I wouldn't say I'm an expert by any stretch of the imagination
16:53 < wildhostile> ok i see
16:54 < wildhostile> where did you learn?
16:54 < dooglus> just from using it
16:54 < dooglus> IRC, etc
16:54 < wildhostile> but all the programation?
16:55 < wildhostile> at school?
16:55 < dooglus> having uses Solaris, HP-UX and such like at work helped a lot - there's a lot in common between Linux and commercial UNIXes
16:55 < wildhostile> ok
16:55 < wildhostile> what work did you do?
16:55 < wildhostile> what was your job?
16:56 < dooglus> I learned to program first on this beast: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=263
16:56 < dooglus> 1K of RAM, and that includes the screen memory.
16:57 < wildhostile> ah ok
16:57 < wildhostile> lol
16:58 < wildhostile> it look nice
16:58 < dooglus> it was pretty nasty
16:59 < wildhostile> what could you do with it?
16:59 < dooglus> well, it was a general purpose computer...  so anything :)
16:59 < wildhostile> lol
16:59 < dooglus> it came with a BASIC interpreter on ROM, so most programming was done in BASIC
17:00 < wildhostile> ok
17:00 < dooglus> you could buy a 16K RAM expansion pack that slotted into the back on it, allowing you to write truely enormous programs
17:00 < wildhostile> lol
17:00 < dooglus> but the pack would wobble if you pressed on the keyboard too hard, and you would lose all your data
17:00 < wildhostile> lol
17:01 < dooglus> the only way to save your work was using a tape recorder, and it took around 5 minutes to save 16K I think
17:01 < wildhostile> !!
17:01 < wildhostile> lol
17:01 < wildhostile> but when you say anything
17:01 < zloc> when you said 1k, I knew and surwe enough... zx81 - I had one of those, paid 300 bucks for it locally...
17:02 < dooglus> I forget what it cost in the UK
17:02 < zloc> http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=409
17:02 < zloc> I started on a borrowed one of those... 4k and a casette interface...
17:02 < wildhostile> lol
17:02 < dooglus> wow
17:03 < dooglus> proper keyboard and everything!
17:03 < wildhostile> mdr
17:03 < zloc> well, except for my fortran class with punch cards and an ibm mainframe behind a counter...
17:04 < zloc> oh and perhaps a class in STUR (iirc) which was a civil engineering type deal...
17:04 < zloc> you should have seen the games we wrote in basic on that trash 80...
17:04 < wildhostile> me?
17:05 < wildhostile> ah
17:05 < wildhostile> excuse
17:05 < zloc> ships and subs with shells and torpedoes
17:05 < dooglus> all in ASCII?
17:05 < zloc> nope - block graphics
17:06 < wildhostile> lol
17:06 < zloc> GRAPHIC MODES  	128 x 48
17:06 < zloc> that was no pixel i assure you
17:06 < zloc> that was a block.
17:06 < wildhostile> lol
17:06 < zloc> gotta check on something... bbiab
17:07 < dooglus> we used to play a lot of nethack
17:07 < wildhostile> lol
17:07 < dooglus> do you know it?
17:07 < dooglus> it's a game where all the 'graphics' are ASCII characters
17:07 < wildhostile> i heard about it
17:07 < dooglus> you can "telnet nethack.alt.org" to play it
17:08 < wildhostile> ah
17:08 < wildhostile> i will try this
17:08 < wildhostile> thank you
17:08 < wildhostile> but
17:08 < dooglus> oh noes
17:08 < dooglus> be careful
17:09 < dooglus> you might realise in 10 years time that you shouldn't have telnetted there...
17:09 < zloc> .
17:09 < wildhostile> why?
17:09 < dooglus> people can get a bit hooked on the game
17:10 < zloc> i have heard of it, not sure if i have played it.
17:10 < wildhostile> ah ok
17:10 < zloc> too much time wasted on games in any case though.
17:10 < wildhostile> it's addictive?
17:10 < zloc> zork. takka-tu? empire
17:10 < zloc> and there was some stuff on a bbs that i really wasted time on
17:11 < zloc> don't remember the names.
17:11 < dooglus> I used to play far too much MUD
17:11 < wildhostile> it's another game?
17:12 < wildhostile> ah ok
17:12 < wildhostile> wikipedia
17:12 < dooglus> it's a class of games
17:12 < dooglus> multi-player adventures
17:12 < wildhostile> ok
17:13 < wildhostile> i like this too
17:13 < dooglus> I guess a precursor to WoW and such like
17:13 < wildhostile> ok
17:13 < wildhostile> i see
17:13 < wildhostile> what i wanted to know
17:13 < wildhostile> is
17:13 < wildhostile> according to you...
17:14 < wildhostile> what is the revolution of linux?
17:14 < wildhostile> if it is one
17:14 < dooglus> what do you mean?
17:15 < wildhostile> as you used lot of system
17:15 < wildhostile> you can see differences beetwen them
17:15 < wildhostile> what linux brings that the other don't?
17:15 < dooglus> linux is the only open source OS I've used
17:16 < dooglus> I like that I can take it apart, see how it works, and fix it
17:16 < wildhostile> ok
17:17 < wildhostile> so it's a good thing for developpers?
17:17 < wildhostile> essentially
17:17 < dooglus> the fact that it's open source means that it's good for anyone
17:17 < dooglus> if there's something that annoys you with Windows, you can try to get MS to fix it, but if they refuse, you're stuck
17:17 < wildhostile> in theory
17:18 < wildhostile> ok
17:18 < zloc> I am not much of a developer, more of a tinkerer, and I think Free code is great for me personally.
17:18 < dooglus> on the other hand, if there's something annoying you with Linux, you can ask any of a thousand different people to fix it for you.
17:18 < dooglus> even if you're not a coder, there's the possibility of employing a coder to make the change you want.
17:18 < dooglus> that's not an option with Windows
17:19 < wildhostile> ah ok
17:20 < dooglus> I do wish people would use comments in free source code though
17:20 < dooglus> it makes things so much easier to follow
17:20 < zloc> that would be nice - i think i might do more if that were the case
17:20 < wildhostile> comments?
17:21 < wildhostile> comments in the source code?
17:21 < dooglus> lines in a program which don't do anything other than explain things to the people reading the code
17:21 < dooglus> source code comments, yes
17:21 < wildhostile> ok
17:21 < wildhostile> they don't?
17:21 < zloc> i gotta run - will shout later.
17:22 < dooglus> ttyl
17:22 < wildhostile> ok zloc
17:22 < wildhostile> thank you
17:23 < wildhostile> ok dooglus i will to go too
17:23 < wildhostile> thank you a lot for your help
17:23 < dooglus> did your compile work?
17:23 < wildhostile> and your patience
17:23 < zloc> well, plans changed - not going for a bit now... hunger will have to wait a bit...
17:24 < wildhostile> no
17:24 < wildhostile> i will make it later
17:24 < wildhostile> and go back to say you the result
17:24 < wildhostile> i will do it later
17:25 < wildhostile> ok?
17:25 < dooglus> ok
17:26 < wildhostile> so
17:26 < wildhostile> good evening
17:26 < wildhostile> or night
17:27 < wildhostile> and thanks
17:27 < wildhostile> zloc, see you
17:27 < wildhostile> bye
17:27 < dooglus> bue
17:27 -!- wildhostile [n=chatzill@ALamentin-104-1-40-194.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.8/2007030119]"]
17:41 -!- igli [n=igli@82.152.221.75] has joined #synfig
17:42 < zloc> did any apply for summer of code?
17:57 < dooglus> I don't think so, no
18:18 < igli> morning dooglus
18:19 < dooglus> evening!
18:19 < igli> heh
18:19 < dooglus> perfect timing - looks like we're just about to go out for the evening - missus just got home
18:19 < igli> silly me, there is no kvalgrind only kcachegrind; np next time ;)
18:22 < dooglus> you can just use valgrind
18:22 < dooglus> it's a console app
18:22 < dooglus> not gtk
18:22 < igli> y i know ;)
18:23 < igli> it'd be nice to have memgrind etc in k[cachegrind]
18:23 < dooglus> a couple of days ago I had synfigstudio crashing whenever I opened a file
18:24 < dooglus> I couldn't understand why - all I did was added a private String member to the Color class
18:24 < dooglus> adding a private member shouldn't cause a crash, I don't think
18:24 < dooglus> so I can only think there must be some other bug.  valgrind doesn't tell me about it though.
18:24 < dooglus> anyway - must go.
18:24 < dooglus> talk later.
18:25 < igli> l8r
18:50 -!- xerakko [n=xerakko@98.Red-83-61-143.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #synfig
20:57 -!- omry_ [n=omry@l192-117-99-254.broadband.actcom.net.il] has joined #synfig
21:03 -!- omry [n=omry@l192-115-27-205.broadband.actcom.net.il] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
21:37 -!- omry_ [n=omry@l192-117-99-254.broadband.actcom.net.il] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:38 -!- omry_ [n=omry@l192-114-82-223.broadband.actcom.net.il] has joined #synfig
21:50 -!- omry__ [n=omry@l192-117-123-44.broadband.actcom.net.il] has joined #synfig
22:07 -!- omry_ [n=omry@l192-114-82-223.broadband.actcom.net.il] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
22:16 -!- omry__ [n=omry@l192-117-123-44.broadband.actcom.net.il] has quit [Connection timed out]
22:18 -!- omry__ [n=omry@l192-117-123-216.broadband.actcom.net.il] has joined #synfig
23:19 -!- omry__ [n=omry@l192-117-123-216.broadband.actcom.net.il] has quit [Connection timed out]
23:19 -!- omry__ [n=omry@l192-115-19-165.broadband.actcom.net.il] has joined #synfig
23:31 -!- Netsplit pratchett.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: @ChanServ
23:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @ChanServ
23:41 -!- omry_ [n=omry@l192-117-123-181.broadband.actcom.net.il] has joined #synfig
23:47 -!- omry__ [n=omry@l192-115-19-165.broadband.actcom.net.il] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
--- Log closed Wed Mar 21 00:00:02 2007