--- Log opened Sat Mar 24 00:00:02 2007
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02:28 < dooglus> hey pabs
02:29 < pabs3> morning
02:29 < dooglus> I'm having another synfig-related nightmare :)
02:29 < pabs3> another bug found and fixed I see :D
02:29 < pabs3> oh?
02:30 < dooglus> zloc/teak found a new bug earlier
02:30 < dooglus> to do with the handling of bounding rectangles in transformation layers
02:30 < dooglus> I've made a couple of commits to fix it, but there are still problems
02:31 < dooglus> what I'm not understanding is how this hasn't been noticed before
02:32 < pabs3> hmm, how does one edit the vertices of a curve gradientt
02:32 < dooglus> the 'zoom' layer never changes the size of its bounding box.  since zooming generally makes things bigger, and having the bounding box too small leads to unwanted clipping, it seems pretty obvious when it happens
02:32 < dooglus> one either uses the 'normal' tool to drag the ducks, or edits them in the 'params' dialog
02:33 < pabs3> I'm only seeing the offset duck at the moment for some reason
02:33 < dooglus> oh, you mean initially...
02:33 < dooglus> you need to right-click on the 'verticies' param, and 'convert' to 'bline'
02:34 < pabs3> ah
02:35 < pabs3> width ducks have a fun effect on those :)
02:36 < dooglus> you can set the width as a parameter of the whole gradient too
02:36 < dooglus> enabling 'loop' makes it go really wild
02:36 < pabs3> :)
02:37 < pabs3> wow, I'm liking the halftone layer
02:38 < dooglus> :)
02:38 < dooglus> hadn't seen that before
02:38 < pabs3> its got some weird-ass duckage
02:38 < pabs3> all sorts of freaky stuff in the layers that isn't available via the toolbox
02:40 < dooglus> yes
02:41 < pabs3> sorry, got distracted, where were we?
02:41 < dooglus> did you update recently?
02:42 < dooglus> I'm trying to understand context.cpp's Context::get_full_bounding_rect()
02:45 < pabs3> my build is at 363
02:45 < pabs3> did an svn update tho
02:46 < pabs3> whats the chage in 374 about btw?
02:48 < dooglus> p1, p2, diff weren't doing anything
02:48 < dooglus> other than confusing me
02:48 < dooglus> linear gradients are defined by 2 points, p1 and p2
02:49 < dooglus> but curve gradients are defined by a bline
02:49 < pabs3> ah, gotcha
02:49 < dooglus> I'm guessing curve gradients started life as a copy/paste of linear gradients
02:49 < dooglus> and the p1 & p2 stuff never got killed off properly
02:49 < pabs3> don't forget to add yr copyright to the README file too
02:50 < pabs3> sounds like it
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03:07 < pabs3> dooglus: ever got the "Plant" layer to display something?
03:07 < pabs3> hmm, I see macwolfen uses it
03:11 < dooglus> I've never tried
03:14 < dooglus> how about this in context.cpp?
03:14 < dooglus> -	return (*context)->get_full_bounding_rect(*this+1);
03:14 < dooglus> +	return (*context)->get_full_bounding_rect(context+1);
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03:17 < pabs3> considering that is what the get_color function does, that may work
03:17 < pabs3> bbiab
03:25 < dooglus> no, absolutely nothing from the Plant layer
03:26 < dooglus> you can 'convert' the vertices to a bline, and play with them that way, but that doesn't help
03:32 < dooglus> I committed that change.  I think it's right.
03:32 < dooglus> it fixes a bug I was seeing, anyway.
03:33 < dooglus> do you think it's worth raising a bug report at sf.net if I find a bug which I am going to fix immediately?
03:34 < dooglus> I didn't in this case - I just found it & fixed it.  same with teak's bug earlier.  he didn't raise a report in the tracker, and neither did I.
03:55 < pabs3> nah, no point if you find it and fix it in the same session. if you aren't able to fix it that moment, it is handy to have a reminder in case you forget or decide to not work on synfig any more
03:55 < pabs3> but if it takes more than a day or two to come up with a fix, maybe add a tracker item for it
03:56 < dooglus> sure
03:56 < dooglus> that's what I tend to do
03:56 < dooglus> did you see the gtk-ish thing I added today?
03:56 < dooglus> with the docked dialog tabs overlapping?
03:56 < dooglus> as our resident gtk expert, I thought you might be interested ;)
03:57 < pabs3> heh, expert you say?!
03:57 < pabs3> yeah, I did see that
03:58 < dooglus> someone approached me on youtube re. synfig: http://www.youtube.com/profile_comment_all?user=dooglus  (2nd comment)
03:59 < dooglus> I replied with general suggestions, and told him to come here if he has more problems
03:59 < pabs3> poopslingingmonkey?
03:59 < pabs3> cool
04:01  * pabs3 blinks at the comment from TedJesusChristGod
04:01 < dooglus> you can see his poop slinging in all its animated glory here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciGOZO5wHhk
04:02 < dooglus> Ted has a whole host of vids on youtube about how he's the 2nd coming
04:02 < pabs3> haha
04:03 < dooglus> here he is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdWjliKUffA
04:03 < dooglus> his beard has grown out a bit since the 1st coming
04:04 < dooglus> I personally don't think the 2nd coming will be quite so heavy on the CAPS LOCK KEY.  that's not the sign of the true Mesiah.
04:06 < pabs3> hahahahah
04:06 < pabs3> who are these 'haters'?
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04:07 < dooglus> it's "YouTube" for "troll"
04:07 < dooglus> pretty much
04:08 < dooglus> there are huge numbers of people who leave comments on videos saying "you suck", "I want those 3 minute back", "go die", etc.
04:09 < pabs3> welcome to the internet YouTubers
04:10 < dooglus> my first hater: comment #1 on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljmQARJccYk
04:12 < dooglus> this laptop has crashed twice today, both times because I had accidentally unplugged it from the mains, and the battery went dead.
04:13 < pabs3> woopsie!
04:13 < dooglus> neither time did I see any warning that power was low
04:13 < dooglus> I've seen them before though - in GNOME, debian sid
04:13 < dooglus> the power meter currently tells me 'running on battery power, 0 minutes remaining'
04:14 < dooglus> when it fact it's plugged in, charging
04:17 < pabs3> sounds broken. have you got acpi stuff installed?
04:17 < dooglus> ii  acpi           0.09-3         displays information on ACPI devices
04:17 < dooglus> yup
04:18 < dooglus> also, when there are updates (ie. pretty much always) when I boot, a bubble pops up saying 'click on the icon to install updates', and it's pointing at nothing much - no icon, nowhere to click to install
04:18  * pxegeek was wondering about the plant layer too - sounds so promising but delivers just a single duck
04:19 < dooglus> pxegeek: convert your vertices to a bline - then you get 4 useless ducks :)
05:02 < pxegeek> hmmm...  clicks green circle -> convert -> composite, linear, radial composite...  no bline
05:02 < pxegeek> How do I convert it to a bline?  
05:40  * pxegeek signs off for the night
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07:53 < crazy_bus> did synfig get accepted into gsoc?
07:55 < pabs3> we didn't apply. we don't have anyone who could realistically mentor students
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07:58 < pabs3> crazy_bus: there is a page on the wiki about it, perhaps darco will have some time next year
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10:59 < pabs3> dooglus: what do you think about changing the default user home dir to ~/.synfig on unix, instead of ~/Synfig ?
11:40 < dooglus> I don't know what happened there
11:40 < dooglus> it used to be ~/.synfig I think
11:40 < dooglus> then it changed to ~/Synfig?
11:41 < dooglus> I have both, anyway:
11:41 < dooglus> drwxr-xr-x 3 chris chris 4096 2007-03-05 15:59 .synfig
11:41 < dooglus> drwxr-xr-x 3 chris chris 4096 2007-03-24 11:38 Synfig
11:41 < dooglus> I'd much prefer .synfig anyway
11:42 < pabs3> .synfig is from the debian package
11:43 < pabs3> there is a configure flag to change the dir in recent svn, but it still defaults to ~/Synfig
11:49 < dooglus> sounds like the default should be changed to ~/.synfig
11:55 < dooglus> uh
11:55 < dooglus> this laptop has started 'ticking' once every 5 seconds
11:56 < dooglus> it stops if I keep the hard disk busy
11:59 < pabs3> :/
12:05 < dooglus> closing down all programs didn't help
12:05 < dooglus> rebooting seems to have fixed it
12:08 < pabs3> I'd run a SMART test on that hard drive, check yr syslogs too
12:09 < dooglus> nothing in the logs
12:09 < dooglus> what's SMART?
12:12 < pabs3> Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology System (S.M.A.R.T.) (apt-cache show smartmontools)
12:13 < dooglus> ok, thanks
12:14 < pabs3> some laptops even have the checks built into the bios so you can tell at bootup when there is a prefailure attribute present
12:19 < dooglus> it's a pretty new laptop
12:19 < dooglus> it was knocking exactly every 5 seconds
12:20 < dooglus> I think I read somewhere that ext3 flushes to disk every 5 seconds?
12:27  * pabs3 has no idea
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13:29 -!- madsen_ is now known as madsen
13:30 < madsen> hey ppl! :)
13:31 < madsen> Sorry I've been so idle lately - I've had a lot to take care of. (Among other things, finding an appartment for my gf and I.)
13:35 < madsen> pabs3: Yeah, I know Imendio is porting GTK to OS X. It's gonna be nice, but it's far from ready yet.
13:37 < pabs3> any idea how much is done?
13:40 < madsen> No, but I can ask Micke - he'll probably know.
13:43 < pabs3> cool
13:44 < madsen> Hmm, he appears to be idle atm, but I'll try again later.
13:44 < madsen> I'm about to try to build from the latest rev - anything I should take note of?
13:45 < pabs3> you probably know about the SYNFIG_ROOT thing
13:46 < pabs3> no gotchas apart from that (and gui crashes) really
13:46 < madsen> pabs3: What about it?
13:46 < madsen> What's happening with SYNFIG_ROOT?
13:46 < pabs3> the autoconf stuff is a bit broken when not installing in /usr/local so synfigstudio can't find it's icons
13:47 < madsen> Oh, so you still need to set SYNFIG_ROOT?
13:47 < pabs3> the workaround is to set an environment variable SYNFIG_ROOT to point at your prefix
13:47 < pabs3> yeah
13:47 < madsen> Ok, well, that's done and taken care of... I even got it to launch X11 on OS X by itself - unless it was already running...
13:47 < pabs3> darco made that change so he could support mac app-bundles iirc :)
13:48 < pabs3> cool
13:48 < madsen> Nice. :)
13:48 < madsen> Any reason to recompile ETL?
13:49 < pabs3> nope
13:49  * pabs3 bbiab, tv
13:49 < madsen> hehe, ok. Enjoy!
13:49 < igli> pabs3: does that mean my gentoo ebuilds aren't gonna work? we use /usr?
13:49 < igli> ah ok
13:49 < igli> sorry
13:50 < madsen> igli: Well, if they happen not to, then you can always use SYNFIG_ROOT.
13:50 < igli> what just set that var during build?
13:50 < igli> ty btw
13:51 < madsen> No, at runtime. You know, like: 'SYNFIG_ROOT=/usr synfigstudio'
13:53 < madsen> igli: You could make a wrapper script that sets that var and runs synfigstudio - that'd probably be preferable.
13:54 < igli> ah ok
13:54 < igli> tbh i haven't even used it very much yet; no dox and no time :D
13:55 < madsen> igli: It's not really hard. I managed to do the Eyes animation (the one in the gallery in the wiki) without more docs than now... And I've not been doing very much animation before that.
13:56 < igli> madsen: yeah? i just wanted to do some stuff with my kid tbh
13:56 < pabs3> yeah, tutorials on the wiki are pretty good
13:56 < igli> pabs3: ad-break ;)
13:56 < igli> er ?
13:56 < pabs3> :)
13:56 < pabs3> yea
13:56 < igli> hey you should come chat in #friendly-coders sometime m8
13:56 < igli> any lang :D
13:58 < madsen> igli: I think your kid will be able to do some simple stuff in Synfig. It's not that hard - especially if his dad can help him get started. :) And thanks, maybe I will. :)
13:59 < igli> heh it's a she but cool :D i'll get on irc with her when she's down and we can bug you lot :D
13:59 < igli> after perusing the wiki of course
13:59 < madsen> igli: That's ok. Just remember, I'm not much of an animator. :)
13:59 < igli> lol
14:00 < dooglus> madsen: do you have the source for that eyes animation?
14:00 < igli> tbh i'm not even sure i've got it working right as i can't seem to watch animations
14:00 < madsen> And sorry about the "he" - there's just way more boys interested in computers than there are girls.
14:00 < igli> heh np :D
14:00 < igli> not my little girl :D
14:01 < madsen> dooglus: Yeah, I was just looking for it, so I could put a link to it in the wiki. :)
14:01 < igli> she's gonna knock the spots off male coders of her generation
14:01 < igli> ;)
14:01 < madsen> igli: Sounds good. :)
14:01 < dooglus> madsen: that's what I was thinking too.  the wiki could use more .sif examples
14:01 < igli> heh wait til you see the language madsen (sorry i'm wittering a bit)
14:02 < madsen> igli: the language? I think I may have missed something...
14:02 < madsen> dooglus: Indeed. I'm uploading it to googlepages atm, then I can put a link in the wiki.
14:03 -!- teak [n=teak@24.244.163.157] has joined #synfig
14:03 < dooglus> hi teak
14:03 < igli> heh i'm doing a lang that i can teach her quickly. smalltalk is a similar idea, madsen
14:03 < teak> morning dooglus, everyone
14:03 < igli> but different
14:03 < igli> morning teak
14:03 < teak> hey igli 
14:03 < igli> :D
14:03 < igli> afternoon i shold say
14:03 < madsen> igli: Cool! I think I'm gonna teach my kids Ruby - when I get some kids, that is...
14:04 < madsen> dooglus: Ah, crap! I've got, like, 5 different versions of the sif lying around... I don't know which one is the right one. :(
14:04 < igli> lol
14:04 < dooglus> madsen: the newest one maybe?
14:05 < madsen> dooglus: Could be - I'll just try to open them in synfig and find out - if synfig will work this time.
14:05 < madsen> Brb, phone!
14:06 < teak> gonna try work on that potcake this morning dooglus - I hope Ican make a better looking one...
14:08 < dooglus> teak: did you get my email about the bug you found?
14:14 < teak> with the simplified example? Igot that...
14:15 < teak> I amy have something else this morning.
14:15 < teak> I get "objects" that will not show up...
14:17 < teak> just did the same thing again and this time it shows up, odd
14:28 < dooglus> I didn't email the simplified example did I?  I put it on a web site and mentioned the URL here
14:29 < dooglus> I emailed zotzbro last night, saying that the clipping bug is fixed in revision 377, and mentioning how to work around it
14:32 < teak> well, I haven't checked that email boxyet this morning, let me check now...
14:32 < dooglus> ok
14:32 < dooglus> and if you can get this new 'objects that will not show up' bug to happen reliably, please send a .sif file for that too
14:33 < teak> I will try the workaround and build a later version soon, thanks
14:34 < dooglus> best to update from svn again - I made another related fix since then
14:34 < teak> will do.
14:35 < teak> is there a place where development ideas should go?
14:35 < dooglus> there are 4 trackers on the sf.net page
14:36 < dooglus> one of those is probably the right place
14:36 < teak> i will try look
14:36 < dooglus> maybe 'feature requests'?
14:36 < teak> i was wondering about animating over dv video in the last few days.
14:37 < dooglus> I think I've seen the idea mentioned somewhere before
14:41 < teak> back in a bit, I think my tablet does not show up until i restart x
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14:54 < teak> should a region have a duck?
14:54 < dooglus> yes
14:54 < teak> I don't see one here..
14:55 < dooglus> when you say 'region', do you mean something you created using the bline tool?
14:56 < teak> what I did was, draw a "dog", add a region layer to give hime some colour and then deleted his outline leaving only the region
14:56 < teak> that region does not have a duck
14:56 < teak> should I have left the outline and encapsulated the region and the outline instead?
14:57 < dooglus> not if you don't want an outline
14:57 < dooglus> I'll try what you did
14:57 < dooglus> you used the 'draw' tool?
14:57 < teak> yes
14:57 < dooglus> the draw tool has an option to 'create region only' by the way
14:58 < teak> , will look for that
14:58 < teak> hmm, odd wording that
14:59 < dooglus> my dog's got ducks (but no nose)
14:59 < teak> english wise, create region only implies that if it is not ticked, it creates a region and something else
14:59 < teak> but does a region actually get created when that is not ticked?
14:59 < dooglus> no
15:00 < teak> shall I send the offending sif again?
15:00 < dooglus> yes, ok
15:00 < dooglus> maybe "create region instead of outline" is a better description
15:00 < dooglus> or maybe there should be 2 separate options, "create region" and "create outline", like on the bline tool
15:01 < teak> after saving, he seems to have qa duck
15:01 < dooglus> when you create a new region layer using layer>new>geometry>region, the region has no ducks until you convert its verticies to a bline, or link its verticies with the dog's verticies
15:02 < teak> i will not bother sending then
15:02 < teak> well, I linked it with the dog outline and then deleted the outline.
15:02 < dooglus> but you say you had already linked the verticies?
15:03 < teak> anyway, it seems to have acquired a duck (or I was blind before...)
15:03 < teak> I am gonna try animate him now
15:08 < madsen> pabs3: Got a reply from Micke. "<Hallski> madsen: we are not actively hacking on it anymore but Richard does some fixing up and improving it every now and then"
15:13 < dooglus> when you say 'a duck' - he should have one green duck for his position relative to other layers, and also a set of ducks for each vertex (position, tangents, width)
15:14 < teak> I was talking about the green duck, yes. I couldn't see/find it before, it is there fine now...
15:14  * madsen keeps imaging those yellow rubber ducks.
15:14 < madsen> Never ceases to amuse me.
15:14 < madsen> ... and a green rubber duck - of course.
15:17 < dooglus> I guess it may have been off-screen before
15:17 < dooglus> zooming out might have shown it
15:17 < teak> perhaps
15:17 < teak> I have noticed that sometimes ducks seem far away from their "objects"
15:18 < teak> also, when I move my dog, i see the movement of the object while I move the duck, when i move the saucer, i don't see the movement making me guess where it will end up...
15:19 < dooglus> because the saucer is a collection of multiple layers?
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15:21 < teak> could be
15:21 < teak> it is that
15:26 < madsen> K. .sif for Eyes is uploaded and link added in the wiki. :)
15:27 < dooglus> nice
15:29 < madsen> Man, I still need a way to ensure I'm not packaging more libs than needed... I think the OS X app bundle is up to 70 mb now... *brr*
15:37 < dooglus> madsen: do you have any idea what the different symbols for waypoints on the timetrack display indicate?
15:37 < madsen> dooglus: No, not off the top of my head, but let me take a look at it... I might remember better, when I see it.
15:38 < dooglus> madsen: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/waypoints.png , if it helps
15:42 < madsen> Nope, I have no idea what they mean... Are you looking at my sif? (Looks like the layer names from it.)
15:42 < dooglus> yes
15:42 < dooglus> I'm curious how you got the hair to move like that
15:43 < madsen> dooglus: Remember, I had absolutely no clue about what I was doing. Some of it may have been done in an extremely cumbersome and stupid way.
15:43 < dooglus> sure;  the same way I do things, you mean?  :)
15:43 < madsen> dooglus: Oh, I just added keyframes and moved the endpoints.
15:43 < madsen> dooglus: Hehe, maybe.
15:44 < dooglus> I was thinking that if I could find the images it uses, then I could find the source code that uses them, and work out what they mean from that
15:44 < dooglus> but I don't seem to have those images...
15:44 -!- teak [n=teak@24.244.163.157] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:45 < madsen> dooglus: That's odd 'cause your synfig seems to be displaying them...
15:45 < madsen> :-p
15:45 < dooglus> yes
15:45 < dooglus> maybe it's using drawing commands ('draw a green circle') rather than image files
15:46 < madsen> dooglus: Could be...
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15:48 -!- igli is now known as igli_
15:49 -!- igli_ is now known as igli
15:49 < madsen> Ok, just took a screenshot of Synfig running on OS X - just to have proof. :)
15:54 < madsen> It's weird, I get an error when trying to render a png in synfig, but the png seems to come out alright, even though it says it can't find the png module...
16:10 < dooglus> that is strange
16:15 < dooglus> I found the waypoint icons:  they are drawn by code in synfig-studio/src/gtkmm/widget_timeslider.cpp 's render_time_point_to_window()
16:16 < madsen> dooglus: Can you figure out what they mean?
16:17 < dooglus> I intend to.  I'll write it in the wiki
16:17 < madsen> dooglus: Sounds good!
16:17 < dooglus> first stumbling block: how do you create a wiki page?
16:18 < madsen> dooglus: Go to the URL you want it to have... At least, that's how it's usually done.
16:18 < madsen> Then hit "Edit this page".
16:19 < dooglus> nice
16:20 < madsen> Yeah, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you know the system.
16:34 < dooglus> I just made an image in synfigstudio showing what the colours mean.
16:34 < dooglus> and it won't let me save it!
16:37 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/no-save-allowed.png
16:37 < dooglus> everything is greyed out
16:37 < pabs3> wth?!
16:38 < dooglus> yeah
16:38 < pabs3> can you reproduce that?
16:38 < dooglus> I don't think I've seen it before
16:39 < dooglus> and I've not tried closing down and starting again, because I want to save my picture, dammit :)
16:40 < dooglus> hmmm, using file>new to make a new document ungreyed the menu
16:43 < madsen> Weird!
16:46 -!- HyperServX [i=HyperPac@pD95E3655.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #synfig
16:47 < madsen> Well, gotta go. See ya!
16:47 < HyperServX> hey folks
16:47  * madsen disappears.
16:47 < pabs3> hullo :)
16:47 < HyperServX> how can i resize a bitmap when importing it into the synfig studio...i know this question may sound a little bit stupid...
16:49 < pabs3> click on the pic, then move the corner ducks about
16:52 < HyperServX> hmm doesn´t work cause i can´t select the pic
16:53 < HyperServX> because when importing it it´s larger than my workspace
16:53 < HyperServX> and so there are no ducks :(
16:55 < pabs3> try zooming out lots 
16:55 < pabs3> use the overview window for quick zoomout via the scrollbar
16:56 < pabs3> ducks should show up outside the canvas
16:59 < dooglus> is the image too big?  http://wiki.synfig.com/Waypoints
17:01 < pabs3> nope
17:02 < pabs3> undefined interpolation??
17:02 < dooglus> I think that's for things like ensapsulating layers
17:02 < HyperServX> zooming out worked great
17:02 < HyperServX> thx a lot
17:03 < dooglus> when a 'paste canvas' contains a bunch of other images, each image has its own waypoints
17:03 < dooglus> with their own interpolation
17:03 < dooglus> the 'paste canvas's timetrack will show an undefined waypoint - indicating that the layers inside it have waypoints, but not indicating their interpolation types
17:03 < pabs3> the paste canvas layer still crashes synfigstudio when you try to insert it from the "new layer" menu
17:04 < pabs3> ah, ok
17:04 < dooglus> I'll take your word for that for the moment :)
17:04  * dooglus doesn't want a crash right now
17:04 < pabs3> :)
17:06 < HyperServX> btw - synfig is great so far...I hope development will continue fast :)
17:08 < pabs3> cool :)
17:09 < pabs3> we need more developers, especially some who know gtk
17:09 < pabs3> so if you know any or wanna dive in and learn the code, there are lotsa bugs to fix :)
17:09 < dooglus> HyperServX: recent builds are quite a lot more stable than the last official release
17:10 < dooglus> I just found a new gtk bug I think
17:10 < HyperServX> hmm well, then i guess i should give a recent build a try
17:11 < HyperServX> sorry, but i´m not good in coding
17:11 < HyperServX> i did some work on translation, so - if you´re as far as that, then feel free to get in touch :)
17:11 < dooglus> can someone translate "TCB" into English?
17:12 < dooglus> it always makes me think of "The Care Bears"
17:12 < dooglus> but I doubt if that's what it means
17:12 < dooglus> http://www.care-bears.com/
17:12 < pabs3> heh. I've no idea what it is, is there any indication in the code?
17:13 < dooglus> I'll check.
17:13 < pabs3> HyperServX: not enough infrastructure in place for translations yet, thats one of those zillion things on the todo :)
17:13 < dooglus> I think my 'care bears' association goes back to an old Atari ST demo group: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13847
17:14 < HyperServX> yeah...translation is always last in line
17:15 < HyperServX> i´d really like to contribute something usefull, but i guess i have nothing to offer
17:15 < HyperServX> :(
17:15 < dooglus> we have translatable strings all through the code I think: _("Synfig Studio Authentication"),
17:15 < pabs3> that is true
17:16 < pabs3> hmm
17:16 < dooglus> so it shouldn't be too hard to get people started on translations
17:16 < dooglus> I don't know what's involved though
17:16 < pabs3> need to work out the pot file generation and stuff
17:16 < dooglus> I assume there are tools that will do most of the work for us
17:17 < pabs3> aye
17:17 < pabs3> HyperServX: how can we contact you when we're ready for translators? btw, which language?
17:18 < HyperServX> german would be the language
17:18 < HyperServX> and you can contact me via email : pac@juxtapose.de (hopefully you won´t add me to "1000 porn newsletters for free")
17:18 < HyperServX> ;)
17:18 < HyperServX> http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/gettext_9.html
17:18 < HyperServX> ^^ the gettext method is quite popular
17:19 < pabs3> that'd be the plan
17:19 < HyperServX> it´s a little hard to integrate in the first place, but then it works out really great
17:19 < HyperServX> squirre mail used it f.e.
17:23 < pabs3> cool
17:23 -!- teak [n=teak@24.244.163.157] has joined #synfig
17:23  * pabs3 zz
17:23 -!- pabs3 [n=pabs@dsl-58-7-192-148.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit ["zzz"]
17:27 < HyperServX> i´m off too...have a nice day
17:27 -!- HyperServX [i=HyperPac@pD95E3655.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #synfig []
17:29 < teak> dooglus, I have another clipping issue that may be unrelated
17:29 < dooglus> cool :)
17:30 < teak> it may be that I am using a suboptimal strategy to get the effect I want though.
17:30 < dooglus> with the latest revision?  or are you still using the old one?
17:30 < teak> would you like a sif?
17:30 < dooglus> sure
17:37 < dooglus> I don't know if you sent it, but I didn't get it...
17:38 < teak> delayed by a phone call
17:38 < dooglus> ok
17:47 < teak> dooglus, finally sent
17:47 < dooglus> thanks
17:54 < dooglus> these .sif files are too big
17:54 < dooglus> and mostly full of spaces
17:54 < teak> I don't catch the meaning of full of spaces, but is there some way I can sort this on my end?
17:55 < dooglus> no
17:55 < dooglus> I mean more than half the characters in your .sif file are space characters
17:55 < dooglus> removing the spaces from the start of each line reduces it from 325K to 135K
17:55 < dooglus> I guess compressing the file would work very well
17:56 < teak> THese are the sifs that synfig is creating.
17:56 < dooglus> yes
17:56 < dooglus> I'm not blaming you :)
17:56 < dooglus> it's synfig's fault (or maybe the XML library it's using to create them)
17:56 < teak> but what is the problem? too big to xfer nicely? 
17:56 < teak> file bloat that is unneeded?
17:56 < dooglus> not really a problem - it just seems silly to bloat the file with 200,000 spaces...
17:56 < teak> it does.
17:57 < teak> do you see the clipping in that last one?
17:57 < dooglus> no
17:57 < dooglus> which frame?
17:58 < teak> near the end of the animation
17:58 < teak> you don't see it when you go to the keyframes for some reason
17:58 < teak> only when you run the preview
17:59 < dooglus> it looks OK in the preview
17:59 < dooglus> what's being clipped, the UFO?
18:00 < teak> I am getting the clipping on the ufo just after the dog is taken in and it begins to move upto the left.
18:00 < dooglus> you can use the scrollbar on the preview window to identify a frame with the clipping
18:01 < dooglus> like 9s 4f?
18:01 < teak> yes, it seems to start at about 9s 2f
18:01 < dooglus> (it's printed in red in the top left corner)
18:01 < teak> real bad by 9s 8f
18:02 < dooglus> here's 9s 2s: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/preview.png
18:02 < teak> still a bit by 9s 14f but then good
18:02 < dooglus> here's 9s 8f: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/preview2.png
18:03 < dooglus> so it's fixed in my version, would you say?
18:03 < teak> try 9s 10f
18:03 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/preview3.png
18:03 < teak> but that look good yes
18:04 < dooglus> I can see the dog sticking out the top of the UFO
18:04 < teak> yes looks fixed in your version
18:04 < teak> I know
18:04 < dooglus> you can fade his 'amount' to 0 if you want him to disappear
18:04 < teak> I have to find a better way
18:04 < teak> I will do that or shrink him down really fast
18:05 < teak> Long term, I want to have some doors open
18:05 < dooglus> I think it terms of efficiency, it's quicker to render an object with amount=0
18:05 < dooglus> because the renderer just skips them
18:06 < dooglus> in the editor itself,
18:06 < dooglus> not the preview window
18:06 < dooglus> if you view 9s 10f then select the 'Inline Canvas' layer,
18:06 < dooglus> where do you see the bounding box drawn?
18:07 < dooglus> you should see it around the UFO, like this: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/9s10f.png
18:15 -!- xerakko [n=xerakko@debian/developer/xerakko] has quit ["Me'n vaig"]
18:39 < teak> just emailed my version
18:39 < teak> bounding box is clipping it.
18:40 < teak> but zoom is 1, what gives? how does the saucer get larger than the bounding box at that point?
18:41 < teak> I need to redo from scratch
18:41 < teak> perhaps i made a dumb mistake
18:42 < teak> gotta get ready to go out now though
18:55 < dooglus> basically, rebuilding from svn will fix it
18:55 -!- igli is now known as igli_zzz
18:55 < dooglus> I'm not sure exactly what was going wrong in that picture, but yesterday I fixed 3 separate bugs to do with bounding boxes
19:11 < teak> sure
19:11 < teak> gone now, later
19:11 -!- teak [n=teak@24.244.163.157] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:40 -!- pxegeek [n=Miranda@c-71-59-140-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #synfig
20:40 -!- dyloxin [n=dyloxin@dsl081-054-146.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:41 -!- igli_zzz is now known as igli
20:45 < pxegeek> looks like we lost dyloxin again :(
20:59 < dooglus> oops
20:59 < dooglus> I log this channel as well - you know that?
21:03 < dooglus> incidentally, are you planning to tango-ize the dialog-tab icons as well?
21:03 < dooglus> (the ones shown here: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/dialogs.html )
21:31 < pxegeek> I was going for the low hanging fruit first, but yes, eventually we can make everything match.
22:02 < nox-Hand> How long might it take me to learn the basics of synfig? :)
22:03  * nox-Hand has been idling for too long without talking ;D
22:04 < dooglus> it's easy enough to get started
22:04 < dooglus> try a tutorial on the wiki
22:04 < nox-Hand> Sounds like a good idea, gotta get it installed first though :P
22:04 < dooglus> http://wiki.synfig.com/Getting_Started
22:04  * nox-Hand will have to consult another about that. I heard about an ebuild
22:04 < dooglus> which OS(es) do you have?
22:04 < nox-Hand> Oh, right, will look first :P
22:05 < nox-Hand> Gentoo and (tomorrow) Ubuntu
22:05 < dooglus> it should be easy enough to build on either of those
22:05 < dooglus> I've very little experience with gentoo, but it's easy enough on ubuntu
22:06 < dooglus> I would recommend building the code from subversion
22:06 < dooglus> it's a lot more stable than the most recent release
22:06 < dooglus> see http://wiki.synfig.com/Build_instructions
22:07 < nox-Hand> Right :)
22:07 < nox-Hand> Cheers
22:07  * nox-Hand has NO 2d animation knowledge :P
22:07 < nox-Hand> I do 3d for hobby in Blender3d :P
22:10 < nox-Hand> There are Gentoo Ebuilds :D
22:10 < dooglus> I don't even know what an Ebuild is
22:11 < nox-Hand> dooglus: What OS you on? :)
22:11 < dooglus> debian
22:12 < nox-Hand> dooglus: Put short, ebuild is sorta a code file that tells how to download the file, extract it and the compile it from source and then install it. It can also add/remove support for all files. Where Debian is .deb and it's all binary, Gentoo seeks to run on source code compiles
22:12 < nox-Hand> ebuild is what portage uses. Portage is gentoos version of apt-get
22:16 < dooglus> ok, but where will it download the source from?
22:16 < dooglus> if it's downloading the most recent release, then that's not much use, because it's old and quite buggy
22:22 < nox-Hand> I am using subversion :)
22:22 < nox-Hand> ebuilds can get all sorts of files :)
22:29 < dooglus> ok
22:30 < dooglus> I just had firefox crash while I was typing a new bug report into a sf.net form
22:30 < dooglus> I was a bit annoyed, 'cos I'd typed a fair bit when it crashed
22:30 < dooglus> I ran it again, it offered to 'restore' my previous session, so I let it.
22:30 < dooglus> imagine my surprise when the bug report reappeared, half filled in, just how it was when it crashed!
22:31 < dooglus> I thought firefox just remembered which pages I was on, but it seems it restores all the form content too
22:43 < pxegeek> we <3 teh fox
22:44 < pxegeek> Ok, so I can't leet speak....
22:44 < dooglus> it's just crashed again.
22:44 < dooglus> so 10/10 for recovery
22:44 < dooglus> but 0/10 for longevity
22:46 < pxegeek> Time for a reboot?
22:47 < pxegeek> Didn't you say you were running an unstable install of the OS?
22:55 < dooglus> Hmmm, yes.
22:55 < dooglus> but, it doesn't often have this kind of problem.
22:56 < dooglus> firefox recently got updated to 2.0.0.3 - I think that's when the problems started
22:56 < dooglus> but it's not been good ever since I updated to Flash 9
23:04 < dooglus> any idea how to set the grid size in studio?
23:07 < pxegeek>  > File-> options
23:07 < pxegeek> Yay!  one I know the answer to!
23:07 < dooglus> doh
23:07 < dooglus> thanks! :)
23:23 < pxegeek> I was checking out the plant layer that pabs mentioned on macwolfen.
23:23 < pxegeek> I finally found it under barrel smoke
23:23 < pxegeek> but it wasn't enabled.  Enabling it crashed synfigstudio :(
23:26 < dooglus> huh?
23:26 < dooglus> barrel smoke?
23:27 < dooglus> oh, I see - that's a .sif file?
23:27 < dooglus> $ grep -i plant *.sif
23:27 < dooglus> macwolfen.sif:                                <layer type="plant" active="true" version="0.1" desc="Plant">
23:28 < pxegeek> but the canvas it's on isn't active
23:29 < pxegeek> Or encapsulated layer
23:33 < dooglus> i see
23:34 < dooglus> I'll take a look in a while
23:34 < dooglus> I'm trying to see what the various interpolations do at the moment
23:34 < dooglus> I'm writing a wiki page about them: http://wiki.synfig.com/Waypoints
23:34 < dooglus> oooh - pretty pictures :)
23:34 < pxegeek> They seem to be similar to the ones used in Blender, if you've ever used that
23:34 < dooglus> I've not
23:34 < dooglus> but that might help
23:35 < dooglus> maybe it's even got documentation :)
23:38 < pxegeek> TCB - Tension, Continuity, Bias
23:38 < pxegeek> http://www.cubic.org/docs/hermite.htm
23:38 < pxegeek>     * Tension: How sharply does the curve bend?
23:38 < pxegeek>     * Continuity: How rapid is the change in speed and direction?
23:38 < pxegeek>     * Bias: What is the direction of the curve as it passes through the keypoint?
23:40 < pxegeek> Nice pictures - love the last "todo"
23:41 < dooglus> thanks
23:45 < dooglus> that's just what I needed
23:45 < dooglus> (the URL, not the 'nice pictures', although that's appreciated too)
23:47 < pxegeek> The power of google.  There's a Frozen Yogurt company in the US called TCBY, which is what I keep thinking of when I see those initials
23:47 < pxegeek> Care bears are not welcome in our house.  As my wife said  - 
23:48 < pxegeek> "they're not very caring sometimes"
23:49 < dooglus> weren't they just cartoon characters?
23:49 < pxegeek> Yes.  In later, straight to DVD releases, they're also 3D computer generated blobs
23:50 < pxegeek> I hesitate to say characters...
23:51  * pxegeek just hit a glibmm-ERROR **
23:52 < dooglus> runtime?
23:52 < pxegeek> Trying to load a recent file
23:53 < pxegeek> I probably need to reboot.  Synfig never seems to be quite asstable after it's already crashed once.
23:53 < pxegeek> s/asstable/ as stable
23:53 < pxegeek> Althought the way it's falling over right now, it might be quite an apt description
23:53 < dooglus> you're on windows, right?
23:53 < pxegeek> for my sins
23:53 < pxegeek> yes
23:54 < dooglus> I don't know why crashing once would affect stability
23:54 < dooglus> the next run is a completely separate process
23:54 < pxegeek> Logic says that, yes.  
23:55 < pxegeek> Gut feel says it doesn't feel like that.  
23:56 < pxegeek> If I trigger the same crash twice in a row, typically the first time Synfig evaporates without a trace, the second time, it'll hang and trigger DrWatson, Microsoft's error reporting tool
23:56 < pxegeek> Except when I'm trying to demonstrate the effect to someone else, then it's sod's law....
23:57 < pxegeek> :)
--- Log closed Sun Mar 25 00:00:02 2007