--- Log opened Sun Mar 25 00:00:02 2007
00:01 < pxegeek> I think the glibmm crash was because I tried to open a recently used file that didn't exist on my HD anymore...
00:02 < dooglus> interesting
00:03 < dooglus> I just tried that.  I got: Unable to open file "/tmp/foo.sif"
00:03 < dooglus> (as I would expect)
00:03 < dooglus> no crash
00:04 < pxegeek> Hang on - reproing with a different file
00:04  * pxegeek tries to ignore "Baccara's Yes Sir, I can boogie" playin g on Virgin radio reight now
00:05 < pxegeek> Apprears to be reproduceable under windows :(
00:05 < pxegeek> glibmm-ERROR **; 
00:06 < pxegeek> unhandled exception(type std::exception) in signal handler:
00:06 < pxegeek> what" Counldn't create parsing context
00:06 < pxegeek> aborting
00:06 < dooglus> triffic song
00:06 < pxegeek> OK
00:08 < dooglus> seems baccaca released 5 CDs
00:08 < dooglus> 4 of them are 'greatest hits' collections
00:08 < dooglus> :)
00:09  * pxegeek says they're on to Hue & Cry now
00:09 < pxegeek> I bet all of them have that track on it
00:09 < dooglus> yup
00:10 < pxegeek> Plastic Bertrand - wow they're digging out the oldies
00:12 < dooglus> so that crash is if you open a file, close it, delete it, and try to open it again from 'recent files'?
00:16 < pxegeek> I just renamed a file that was in the recent files list then tried to reopen it.
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00:22 < pxegeek> bbl
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04:40 < teak> anyone around?
04:42 -!- pabs3 [n=pabs@dsl-58-7-192-148.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #synfig
04:49 < pabs3> aww, no dyloxin
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05:11 < dooglus> 20:40 -!- dyloxin [n=dyloxin@dsl081-054-146.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:11 < dooglus> 8.5 hours ago
05:14 < pabs3> ya
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05:29 < pabs3> heh, inkscape has a en_US@piglatin translation !
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06:04 < pabs3> its amazing how much code is commented out and disabled with #if 0 or if(0)
06:20  * pxegeek is paranoid that dyloxin leaves when he joins
06:26 < igli> pabs3: ah coders ;)
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06:31 < pabs3> aahhhhhhaaaa! gotcha. finally figured out where the little menu button in the top left of the work area is created
06:31  * pabs3 should have just searched for "menu button" instead of being clever
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06:39 < igli> lol
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07:04 < dooglus> pabs3: I looked to see whether I could make the time area editable, but couldn't.
07:04 < dooglus> as in your bug report
07:06 < dooglus> rendering to .gif is so much slower than to .avi
07:06 < pabs3> what kind of gtk widget is the time area?
07:06 < pabs3> really?
07:06 < dooglus> yes
07:06 < dooglus> many times slower, I'd say
07:07 < dooglus> I think because for every pixel of every frame it does a "find the closest colour in the palette to this pixel"
07:07 < dooglus> with no hash table lookup for previous results, or any other such optimization
07:07 < dooglus> I've not tried profiling it to be sure that's what's slow, but it seems reasonable
07:07 < pabs3> ugh
07:08 < dooglus> "closest colour" is a vaguely complex calculation, too
07:08  * pabs3 wonders if there is a gif library we could farm out the encoding to
07:09 < dooglus> I'm trying to get something to wave up and down smoothly over and over, using a time loop
07:09 < dooglus> I can't seem to to it using the TCB interp.
07:09 < dooglus> because loops start at 0
07:10 < dooglus> and TCB interp.s seem to need some movement before the start, to continue from?
07:10 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/tracking.sif for instance, trying to get the line to track the dot
07:11 < dooglus> it's OK for 2, 3, and 4; but 1 and 5 are off
07:23 < dooglus> seems I need to use 'ease out' at the start and 'ease in' at the end.
07:24 < dooglus> there's libungif, yes
07:24 < pabs3> that'd be for decoding wouldn't it?
07:24 < dooglus> oh, I see
07:24  * pabs3 has no idea about the TCB stuff
07:25 < dooglus> I put pxegeek's link about TCB in that waypoints wiki page
07:25 < dooglus> it seems to be similar in concept to how blines work in synfig
07:25 < dooglus> each bline segment is defined by 2 points and 2 tangents
07:26 < dooglus> and each TCB interpolation is similarly defined by the starting and ending values of the parameter, and the speed at which the param was changing before and after this segment (ie. the tangents)
07:27 < dooglus> maybe the problem with the gifs is that we're wanting to make animated gifs, not single images?
07:28 < dooglus> ungif's description tells me:
07:28 < dooglus>  If you need to be able to write compressed GIFs, you can install the giflib
07:28 < dooglus>  packages instead.
07:28 < dooglus> (ungif will write uncompressed gifs; the compression algorithm is patent encumbered?)
07:28 < dooglus> I've seen the 'burn all gifs' icon on your webpage
07:29 < pabs3> it used to be, the patents have since expired
07:34 < dooglus> I just tried rendering a very simple 8 second animation
07:34 < dooglus> it took 10 minutes to render a .gif
07:34 < dooglus> and 45 seconds to render a .avi
07:35 < dooglus> what's more, the .gif is twice the size of the .avi, and crappy looking, too.  lots of artifacts
07:36 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/tracking.gif vs. http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/tracking.avi
07:52 < pabs3> yuck
07:56  * pabs3 pokes Gtk::Table in the eye
08:01 < dooglus> why?
08:02 < dooglus> I poked the gtkmm guys in the eye yesterday, but they poked me back
08:02 < dooglus> I was complaining that if you ask it for a RGB colour (1.001, 0, 0), it gives you black instead of red
08:02 < dooglus> they told me it was my own fault, 'cos 1.001 is an illegal value
08:03 < pabs3> can't get the menu bar I'm adding to show up
08:03 < pabs3> gah, I need a faster compiler
08:03 < dooglus> I don't think they're ever fast enough
08:04 < dooglus> this one used to blow me away
08:04 < dooglus> but now I'm bored of waiting for it to compile stuff
08:05 < dooglus> I just noticed that the process which has burned the most CPU time on this box is the CPU meter...
08:05 < pabs3> http://bucket.chianamo.mine.nu/booyah.png
08:05 < pabs3> lol
08:07 < dooglus> nice
08:07 < dooglus> but no 'state' menu?
08:07 < pabs3> yeah, or layer
08:07 < pabs3> weirdness
08:09 < pabs3> seems those have bits that are dynamically added
08:13 < dooglus> yes
08:14 < dooglus> firefox won't remember my wiki password.  and neither will my brain.
08:15  * pabs3 wishes the web used ssh keys instead of passwords
08:32 < pabs3> ok, got those up, but that broke the popup menu
08:37 < dooglus> I've stuck an animation on http://wiki.synfig.com/Waypoints#Interpolation
08:37 < dooglus> it shows the 25 different interpolations 'in action'
08:38 < dooglus> I've not got used to using the popup menu
08:38 < dooglus> I'm not able to predict what will be on it
08:39 < dooglus> sometimes it offers to make me a new layer, and other times it talks about 'add layer to group'
08:43 < pabs3> argh
08:48 < dooglus> does the wiki have some way of embedding youtube videos?
08:52  * pabs3 has no idea
08:53 < dooglus> never mind.
08:54 < dooglus> I just linked to the youtube version instead of trying to embed it
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09:07 < dooglus> I tried profiling synfig to see why gif rendering is being so slow.
09:08 < dooglus> gprof tells me: Each sample counts as 0.01 seconds. no time accumulated
09:26  * pabs3 files a bug and gives up for now
09:33 < dooglus> I was just going to ask if that bug report means you've given up :)
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21:14 < ryanpg> hi all... just discovered synfig, unfortunately it crashes when rendering to anything other than png
21:15 < ryanpg> this is version 0.61.05-124 (nov 10 2006) using synfig 0.61.05-156
21:17 < ryanpg> the error at the cli is:
21:17 < ryanpg> glibmm-ERROR **: 
21:17 < ryanpg> unhandled exception (type unknown) in signal handler
21:17 < ryanpg> aborting...
21:17 < ryanpg> Aborted (core dumped)
21:19 < ryanpg> I searched the bug tracker for glibmm-ERROR but came up with nothing
21:23 < ryanpg> should I try building from source?
21:24 -!- xerakko [n=xerakko@debian/developer/xerakko] has quit ["Me'n vaig"]
21:28 < ryanpg> and if so should I pass --enable-optimization=1 to ./configure?
21:29 < ryanpg> apparently not: configure: error: invalid variable name: --enable-optimization
21:34 < ryanpg> uh... apparently so
21:34 < ryanpg> that was a copy & paste error from synfig.com
21:35 < teak> you can render on the command line and that works
21:35 < ryanpg> teak, oh... cool
21:35 < teak> i just fought with that today
21:35 < ryanpg> but unfortunately I've already uninstalled and am now building from source
21:35 < teak> k
21:36 < ryanpg> teak, but I'll stop the compile if it wont fix the problem anyway?
21:38 < ryanpg> oh and does anyone know if rendering to swf is planned?
21:39 < teak> i have no idea,but what platform are you on?
21:40 < ryanpg> linux, ubunt feisty
21:41 < ryanpg> heh, ubuntu even
21:42 < teak> i see kdenlive can export to flash - just tried - gave me a .flv file
21:42 < teak> gonna play about some more
21:43 < ryanpg> hrm... I thought lives (gnome video editor) might, but it requires sswf which afaict is a windows library
21:44 < ryanpg> theres ming but I haven't found any front-end yet, I just compiled SWFtools, that will convert animated gifs to swf
21:47 < ryanpg> of course I don't think there's any way to embed links or create interactive flash on linux yet (other than running macromedia under wine)
21:54 < ryanpg> so I ran synfig from the CLI, got this error "synfig: warning: Unable to find module "mod_libavcodec" (mod_libavcodec.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)"
21:55 < ryanpg> is this expected?
21:55 < ryanpg> the gif was rendered correctly
22:00 < teak> apt-cache search libavcodec
22:00 < teak> did you have the dev installed before the compile?
22:00 < teak> as a guess
22:01 < ryanpg> nope, dev wasn't installed, I didn't see it as a build dep :(
22:01 < ryanpg> sigh
22:01 < teak> was it a dep or an optional?
22:02 < ryanpg> must be optional
22:04 < ryanpg> I should only have to rebuild synfig not synfigstudio (I hope)
22:07 < igli> it's for a module so optional
22:08 < igli> synfig is the one that takes the time i'm afraid
22:11 < ryanpg> it takes forever to just run ./configure for synfig :P
22:11 < ryanpg> lotsa lotsa code
22:13 < ryanpg> huh... even with libavcodec installed ./configure didn't enable it... I'm trying again with --without-libavcodec=no this time
22:14 < ryanpg> (I meant libavcodec-dev)
22:15 < ryanpg> lol, that didn't work... let's see what happens with --with-libavcodec=yes
22:15 < ryanpg> (btw, I'm being verbose here because I saw that excellent IRC logs are kept, this may turn up in someone else's google search)
22:15 < ryanpg> :)
22:20 < ryanpg> darn it
22:21 < ryanpg> libavcodec -----------------------> no
22:28 < igli> hmm
22:28 < igli> give me a minute i'll check the ebuilds (or check on bugs.gentoo.org linked from the wiki)
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22:45 < dooglus> ryanpg: did you try building from the newest svn sources?
22:47 < dooglus> ryanpg: and you need 2 -dev libraries
22:48 < igli> yeah should be libavcodec ?
22:48 < igli> oh sorry
22:48 < ryanpg> yeah I'm building from today's svn
22:48 < dooglus> libavcodec and - libavformat
22:49 < ryanpg> grr... ok getting libavformat
22:49 < ryanpg> :)
22:49 < dooglus> didn't it complain that libavformat was missing?
22:49 < dooglus> (with a -dev, of course)
22:50 < dooglus> can synfig render to animated png format?
22:50 < dooglus> I notice that the new firefox alpha supports displaying animated png images
22:52 < ryanpg> dooglus, no complaint about libavformat (that I saw) and I'm reconfiguring with it now
22:52 < ryanpg> didn't check to see if the png was animated or not
22:53 < ryanpg> k, it's not animated
22:55 < dooglus> to create an animation, you need to have specified a non-zero 'time' value when you created the canvas
22:55 < dooglus> it defaults to 0
22:56 < dooglus> you can change it by clicking the '>' in the top left of the canvas, then edit>properties>time>end time
22:58 < ryanpg> dooglus, I did all that (following the excellent tutorial), I was able to make an animated gif
22:58 < dooglus> ok
22:58 < dooglus> I think if you ask it to render to 'png' and you have multiple frames, then you'll get multiple .png files
22:58 < dooglus> (numbered)
23:03 < ryanpg> well, I'm rebuilding with everything in place :)
23:03 < dooglus> configure found libav* this time?
23:03 < ryanpg> now that I installed libavformat-dev
23:03 < ryanpg> yes
23:03 < dooglus> ok
23:03 < dooglus> make sure you 'sudo make install' in synfig
23:04 < dooglus> before you './configure' in synfigstudio
23:04 < dooglus> or the synfigstudio configure will find the official synfig package's headers, not the svn version
23:04 < dooglus> basically, follow the wiki Build_Instructions and you'll be fine
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23:22 < dooglus> does someone understand the 'All Keyframes Locked' button?
23:25 < pxegeek> Is this the same as a "don't edit a duck by mistake" button?
23:25 < dooglus> maybr
23:25 < dooglus> maybe
23:25 < dooglus> in the canvas, in the bottom right corner,
23:25 < pxegeek> Like locking the timeline so you don't screw up an animation by mistake?
23:26 < dooglus> there's the round red/green button which switches you in and out of animate-edit-mode
23:26 < pxegeek> You have to hit it so you can edit the timeline
23:26 < dooglus> and next to that is a 4-state button which toggles whether the keyframes before and after are locked or not
23:26 < dooglus> pxegeek: you're thinking of the green button I think
23:26 < dooglus> I'm talking about the think just to its right
23:26 < pxegeek> proabably
23:27 < dooglus> I was in the process of documenting what that button does in the wiki
23:27 < pxegeek> I'm exploring the rotate tool right now which doesn't seem to do anything
23:27 < dooglus> but then I started wondering whether what it does it what it should do
23:27 < dooglus> and whether I should document what it currently does, or fix it first, and then document it :)
23:27 < pxegeek> I saw you were adding in the tools descriptions.
23:27 < dooglus> none of those tools seems to do anything
23:27 < dooglus> smooth-move?
23:28 < dooglus> scale?
23:28 < pxegeek> Yeah, that has me stumped, but I can imagine what I would expect rotate to do
23:28 < dooglus> that whole 1st row of tools seem to all do the same - ie. just move ducks around
23:28 < pxegeek> Oh hang on - maybe I have to enable my dick view to see what's going on
23:29 < pxegeek> s /dick/duck
23:29 < dooglus> I have a theory that you need a graphics tablet to get those tools to do anything
23:29  * pxegeek blusgse
23:29 < dooglus> heh
23:29  * pxegeek sighs and starts looking for his tablet
23:29 < dooglus> I'm not sure how good a theory it is - I don't have a tablet
23:29 < teak> dooglus, i can try something with a tablet now
23:30 < dooglus> and whenever I mention it, people go off to get their tablet and never come back
23:30 < dooglus> teak: see the row of tools to the right of the 'normal' tool?
23:30 < dooglus> do they do anything for you?
23:31 < pxegeek> FINE I'll sit here and jabber at you instead
23:31 < pxegeek> ;)
23:31 < dooglus> make up your mind.
23:31 < dooglus> I thought you were viewing your dick
23:31 < pxegeek> I can't find it!
23:32 < pxegeek> It's a single frame, so not like there's a timeline that the DUCKS are sitting on
23:32  * pxegeek pokes at synfig tutorial
23:32 < dooglus> what can't you find?
23:33 < dooglus> ducks sit on canvases...
23:33 < dooglus> the things that sit on timelines are waypoints (and keyframes)
23:33 < pxegeek> So I have show ducks enabled, but only have a single green circle to move a bline with
23:34 < pxegeek> Should there be another one to control angle? 
23:34 < dooglus> in which tool?
23:34 < pxegeek> rotate
23:34 < teak> i don't see anyting special with the tablet in use
23:34 < pxegeek> theres just a toggle for allow scale
23:34 < teak> i tried with circle and rectangle
23:35 < dooglus> I see the same
23:35 < dooglus> (although I see ducks for each vertex in the bline too, and their tangents)
23:35 < pxegeek> right, but only one for say a inline canvas
23:36 < dooglus> yes
23:36 < dooglus> basically I see exactly the same for all 4 of normal, smooth-move, scale, and rotate
23:36 < dooglus> ie. a single green duck
23:36 < pxegeek> I seem to remember one of the examples has a rotated canvas
23:36 < pxegeek> Oh, but that was with teh layer tool
23:36 < dooglus> the tool options change slightly, but don't seem to do anything
23:37 < dooglus> tehre's a layer tool?
23:37 < pxegeek> You can insert a rotate layer - anything below that will be rotated
23:38 < dooglus> yes.  there's a rotate layer.
23:38 < dooglus> there's a 'scale' layer too.  and 'zoom'
23:38 < pxegeek> but I just want to take a bline and rotate it 90degrees
23:38 < pxegeek> shouldn't need another layer to do it.
23:38 < dooglus> you can encapsulate the bline
23:38 < dooglus> and put a rotate above it inside the encapsulation
23:39 < pxegeek> I could
23:39 < dooglus> but you just want to edit the parameters of the bline so it is rotated without using a layer to do it?
23:39 < pxegeek> But this is what I'd expect the rotate tool to do
23:39 < dooglus> I suppose it is
23:39 < pxegeek> just switch the obect around in the current layer
23:40 < dooglus> the object is the layer, remember..
23:41 < pxegeek> OK, so if you had a line from 0,0 to 100,100, and you rotate it 90 degrees, you should get a line from 0,100 to 100,0
23:41 < pxegeek> no need for another layer
23:41 < dooglus> right
23:41 < dooglus> synfig-studio/src/gtkmm/state_rotate.cpp is the source file which implements the rotate tool
23:45 < dooglus> oh wow
23:45 < dooglus> I just got something to rotate
23:45 < dooglus> yes
23:46 < teak> how did you do it?
23:46 < dooglus> 1. draw a bline
23:46 < dooglus> 2. select the 'rotate' tool
23:46 < dooglus> 3. select the bline layer
23:46 < dooglus> 4. drag a box around the ducks you wish to rotate
23:46 < dooglus> 5. click and drag one of the selected ducks
23:48 < pxegeek> YES!  That's how it should be!
23:48 < dooglus> the same applies to the other 2 tools too
23:49 < dooglus> (smooth & scale)
23:49 < dooglus> & the 'allow scale' tool option makes sense as well now.
23:49 < dooglus> how was that so hard to discover?
23:49 < pxegeek> I had the drag box doing things, but never thought to drag a duck afterwards
23:49 < dooglus> I've tried a few times before without any luck
23:49 < teak> the bline outline or region?
23:49 < pxegeek> I bet the same approach works for scale
23:50 < pxegeek> (in fact I know I've got the scale tool to work in the past
23:50 < pxegeek> )
23:50 < dooglus> yes, it does :)
23:50 < pxegeek> Smooth-move, on the other hand.....
23:51 < teak> it looks like it will scale and rotate at the same time
23:51 < pxegeek> There's an 'allow scale' toggle
23:51 < teak> ah
23:51 < teak> right
23:51 < teak> but it does not seem to want to rotate a rectanglre
23:51 < teak> rectangle even
23:51 < dooglus> rectangles are defined by 2 of their corners
23:52 < dooglus> there's no way a rectange isn't 'square' on the canvas
23:52 < pxegeek> It's alright - teh internet is garbling everyone's typing today
23:52 < pxegeek> For that, we'll have to encapsulate it and rotate the canvas
23:52 < dooglus> hmmm?
23:53 < dooglus> the canvas won't have anything you can hold on to
23:53 < teak> scale will work on blines the same way
23:53 < pxegeek> dooglus: rotate layer, not rotate tool
23:53 < dooglus> if you want to rotate a rectangle, using a 'polygon' or 'bline' (with zero tangents) will let you
23:53 < dooglus> pxegeek: ok, right
23:54 < teak> sure, just seems a bit odd is all
23:55 < dooglus> did you try drawing 2 rectangles, selecting them both, then dragging a box around all 4 of their ducks and rotating those 4 ducks?
23:56 < dooglus> the ducks rotate, but the rectangles stay parallel to the canvas edges
23:56 < dooglus> (that's what rectangles do)
23:58 < teak> yes, very odd, so it was rotating the single one but it just looked like a changing of shape?
23:59 < teak> man, youtube is taking forever to make my latest ufo video live.
23:59 < teak> gotta go out for a walk/run - back later
23:59 < dooglus> later
23:59 < dooglus> what's your yt account?
23:59 < dooglus> (youtube)
--- Log closed Mon Mar 26 00:00:02 2007