--- Log opened Tue Mar 27 00:00:02 2007
00:00 < pxegeek> Although it looked like it got further - I see all but one of the 16 render tiles displayed behind the crash message
00:01 < dooglus> yes
00:01 < dooglus> I get the same
00:01 < dooglus> which is reassuring
00:02 < pxegeek> Very
00:03  * pxegeek remebers to go and download Atrus' latest build
00:04 < dooglus> according to the debugger, the source line that's crashing is:
00:04 < dooglus> 249			g_(c.g_),
00:05 < dooglus> g_(c.g_) !!!
00:05 < dooglus> I love high-level programming languages...
00:05 < pxegeek> Well, it's obviously **** drop carrier
00:06 < pxegeek> RIeman's conjecture
00:17 < pxegeek> BBIAB - rebooting
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00:53  * pxegeek is now running SVN 375
01:04 < pxegeek> dooglus - did you doc the env settings to reenable draw, sketch, etc?
01:04 < pxegeek> I thought I'd seen them in the change logs, but cant's find them
01:10 < dooglus> um - no, I don't think I did
01:10 < dooglus> they are in the svn commit log
01:10 < dooglus> do that should get them into the changelog
01:11 < dooglus> r267
01:11 < pxegeek> which commit
01:11 < pxegeek> thanks
01:12 < dooglus> r267 | dooglus | 2007-03-07 01:29:08 +0100 (Wed, 07 Mar 2007) | 7 lines
01:12 < dooglus> The 'polygon', 'draw', 'sketch', and 'width' tools are disabled by default.  This change allows the user to re-enable them by setting the appropriate environment variable(s):
01:12 < dooglus> export SYNFIG_ENABLE_POLYGON=1 export SYNFIG_ENABLE_DRAW=1 export SYNFIG_ENABLE_SKETCH=1 export SYNFIG_ENABLE_WIDTH=1
01:12 < pxegeek> pasb gave me a cut & paste of them, but they don't appear to be contiguous
01:12 < pxegeek> r261, r262, r268...
01:13 < pxegeek> I'm going to try that now.
01:13 < pxegeek> BTW - I like the html colour box
01:13 < dooglus> good :)
01:13 < pxegeek> What formula are you using for the conversion?  It appears a little non-linear for small values of html
01:13 < dooglus> you have to hit 'return' on it
01:14 < dooglus> I don't know if that's good or not
01:14 < dooglus> I'm not using any conversion at all
01:14 < dooglus> but the 0-100 values are
01:14 < dooglus> they are taking gamma into account
01:14 < pxegeek> So, for tango icon medium blue, htmlis 3465a4
01:14 < dooglus> if you set your gamma to 1.0 then it'll be linear.
01:15 < dooglus> (I think)
01:16 < pxegeek> Hmmm... 
01:17 < pxegeek> 3465a4 I calculate as 20, 40, 64, but the dialog box reckons it's 49,66, 82
01:17 < pxegeek> I reset my gamma to 1 (I think
01:17 < pxegeek> )
01:18 < dooglus> what do you see if you put hex 808080?
01:19 < pxegeek> Aha - the 'visually linear color selection' screws it up.  
01:19 < pxegeek> Turning it off gives the correct values
01:20 < pxegeek> Strangely it still looks the same...
01:20 < pxegeek> ;)
01:21 < dooglus> I didn't really know what to do about the colour correction
01:21 < pxegeek> Not broken - don't fix it!
01:21 < dooglus> ok
01:21 < pxegeek> Looks good!  thanks for making it happen
01:24 < pxegeek> Yay!  I just enabled draw again!
01:25 < dooglus> I've fixed the draw tool in a few places too
01:25 < dooglus> you can extend lines properly now, and join them on to existing ducks, etc
01:26 < dooglus> draw a 'C' in one stroke
01:26 < pxegeek> Yes, it seems to be trying to join them together quite smartly
01:26 < dooglus> then in a 2nd stroke, turn it into an 'O', and it should loop it for you
01:27 < pxegeek> yes - my 'r' just turned into an 'o'
01:27 < dooglus> draw a line, then move the line's layer using its green duck
01:27 < dooglus> then start a new line from a duck inside the first line
01:27 < dooglus> it should be 'linked'
01:27 < dooglus> so moving the point will move both lines
01:27 < dooglus> and both lines will have the same 'offset'
01:28 < dooglus> if you find it doing something wrong, please let me know
01:29 < dooglus> maybe it should link the 2 lines' offsets, too?
01:30 < pxegeek> Maybe - I just picked up the green duck, and it only moved the original stroke
01:30 < dooglus> yes
01:30 < dooglus> but the verticies are still linked
01:31 < dooglus> move one of them and the other will move with it
01:31 < dooglus> even though the layers now have different offsets
01:31 < pxegeek> I seem to have an orphaned tangent - only has a red duck
01:32 < dooglus> if you draw 2 lines, and only drag one of them using the green duck, and then try to draw a new line from the first to the 2nd, it won't be able to connect both ends (since they have different offsets)
01:32 < pxegeek> The orange duck  is on the other line
01:32 < dooglus> weird.
01:32 < dooglus> how?
01:33 < pxegeek> Got it - it was there, just hadn't refreshed and redrawn - you might want to force a refresh
01:33 < pxegeek> Had to deselect the line and reselect it before it showed up.
01:33 < dooglus> I see exactly the same
01:33 < dooglus> that'll be a bug then
01:33 < dooglus> (they are everywhere)
01:33 < pxegeek> But it was there, and yes they're linked
01:33 < pxegeek> Fun!
01:34 < dooglus> should they be linked?
01:34 < pxegeek> Disjointed but linked!
01:34 < dooglus> and should the offsets, too?
01:34 < dooglus> I'm thinking that since the draw tool was used to join the two, we should try to keep them together -
01:34 < dooglus> almost treating them as a single layer
01:35 < pxegeek> That's what I would expect.  
01:35 < pxegeek> I have the same gripe about the bline tool.  
01:35 < dooglus> what's that?
01:35 < dooglus> (the gripe, not the tool)
01:35 < pxegeek> I keep on creating a region and outline, then moving just one of them, and spending the next 10 minutes trying to get them to line up again
01:36 < dooglus> oh?
01:36 < dooglus> they should be created linked
01:36 < dooglus> oh, you're moving them using the offset duck?
01:36 < dooglus> I see
01:36 < pxegeek> Yes
01:37 < dooglus> right.
01:37 < dooglus> that should be easy enough to fi
01:37 < pxegeek> Although they're created together, the ducks are on top of each other, and I can't select both
01:37 < dooglus> x
01:38 < dooglus> hmmm
01:38 < dooglus> I would have thought that dragging a box around them
01:38 < dooglus> would select them both
01:39 < dooglus> but it selects neither
01:39 < pxegeek> Yup
01:40 < dooglus> I can see that usually you don't want to select the green duck
01:40 < dooglus> and so it makes sense that dragging a box around them doesn't select them
01:41 < pxegeek> Once you move one, the two offset ducks are visible, and can be both selected easily
01:41 < dooglus> the easiest thing to do at the moment is, right after drawing the bline,
01:42 < dooglus> both the region and the outline will be selected
01:42 < dooglus> so right-click 'position' in the params dialog and 'link
01:42 < dooglus> '
01:42 < pxegeek> I make sure & higlight both layers in the layer dialog
01:43 < dooglus> that is done automatically when you draw them isn't it?
01:43 < pxegeek> Your suggestion works.  
01:44 < pxegeek> Again, it's not that I can't do it, but that it doesn't do it automatically.  I always forget to link them together
01:44 < dooglus> right
01:44 < dooglus> as for it taking a long time to get them lined up again - 
01:44 < pxegeek> Tool creates two seperate oblect describing the same area....
01:44 < pxegeek> Grrr...
01:44 < dooglus> it shouldn't.  you can just select both layers and link their position param
01:45 < dooglus> that'll line them up
01:45 < pxegeek> Ah!  - thanks for that tip
01:46 < pxegeek> I've just been aligning the green ducks by eye
01:48 < dooglus> I'm not sure how it decides which one to use for the new shared value
01:48 < dooglus> I read somewhere that it's whichever layer is highest in the list
01:48 < pxegeek> Thanks for the updates - glad I can see them !
01:48 < dooglus> but I don't think that's always true
01:48 < dooglus> I'd like to be able to rebuild it for myself
01:48 < dooglus> then I could quickly deliver new features for you to try
01:49 < dooglus> I wonder if it's possible to compile for windows in linux?
01:49 < dooglus> gcc is a cross-compiler, so in theory it should be possible
01:51 < pxegeek> Assuming you have all the right libraries, and / & \  sorted out...
01:52 < pxegeek> OK - I'm going to get some food.
01:53 < pxegeek> Did you want me to write up the zoom bug?
01:57 < dooglus> sure
01:57 < dooglus> I've had a quick look but can't immediately see what's wrong
01:58 < dooglus> memory is getting corrupted, but valgrind isn't helping me to spot why
01:58 < dooglus> you could 'feature request' the auto-linking of offsets for the draw and bline tools too
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02:29 < dooglus> hello again
02:48 < zotz> hey dooglus 
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03:19 < sciboy> Hi
03:19 < dooglus> hi
03:19 < sciboy> This has got to be the largest amount of users i've ever seen in here.
03:20 < dooglus> how many are there?
03:20 < sciboy> 13 total
03:20 < pabs3> (chanserv is a bot)
03:21 < sciboy> Yo pabs.
03:21 < pabs3> heya :)
03:21 < sciboy> As a side note, Pencil Planner had an update.
03:22 < sciboy> The developer said to try out the windows source, and he'd be happy to put the results up on the site if anyone can get it working.
03:23 < sciboy> Unfortunately with the latest version i get an undefined object and i don't know enough C++ to spot where it's coming from.
03:24 < pabs3> as in it doesn't build from source?
03:24 < sciboy> Nope.
03:24 < sciboy> There isn't any official linux support still.
03:26 < sciboy> The site is: http://www.les-stooges.org/pascal/pencil/ : in case you don't have it on hand.
03:27 < pabs3> I went to the Related_projects wiki page :)
03:27 < pabs3> dooglus: haha, nice recursive image
03:28 < sciboy> canvas rotation = sex.
03:29 < dooglus> pabs3: I've made an animated version, which youtube has been processing for longer than it took synfig to render it :)
03:29 < pabs3> heh
03:29 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/recursive.avi (1.2MB)
03:31 < dooglus> and http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/recursive.sif.gz (5KB)
03:31 < dooglus> it's not quite smooth in looping back to the start - I don't know how to invert the 'Warp' layer exactly, so I did it by eye
03:33 < dooglus> anyway...  goodnight.
03:33 < dooglus> zzz
03:34 < pabs3> nite
03:36 < sciboy> It may just be a missing library, it appears related to the quicktime export.
03:37 < sciboy> Scratch that, video export. =/
03:38 < pabs3> ah
03:39 < pabs3> madsen: did you see this? http://svn.voria.com/code/synfig-osx/trunk/launcher/
03:40  * pabs3 adds the tool re-enabling to the FAQ
03:56 < pxegeek> TQ pabs - beat me to the punch
03:57 < pabs3> :)
04:16 < pabs3> zloc: I'd suggest that any clipart/object library be published at http://www.openclipart.org/
04:16 < pabs3> and be public domain
04:45 < pabs3> pxegeek: now that dooglus did your html code request, I'll remove your request from the wishlist wiki page
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04:50 < pxegeek> Or move it to a DONE! section?
04:50 < pxegeek> So that people can see the progress being made, and that adding requests can make a difference?
04:51 < pabs3> yeah, moving it
04:57 < pabs3> dooglus: btw, do you recon we should re-enable the draw tool by default since you did a lot of work on it?
05:00 < pabs3> pxegeek: about the linking, iirc the getting started tutorial explains why that is
05:01 < pabs3> hmm, or maybe it was another one
05:04 < pxegeek> It's OK, I can live with it - it just catches me out every time...
05:04 < pabs3> hmm, a whole section of the pdf is missing from the wiki page
05:05 < pabs3> ahh, its moved to http://wiki.synfig.com/Creating_Shapes
05:07 < pabs3> perhaps the bline tool needs a "link vertices" option
05:08 < pabs3> and maybe link center
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08:23 < dooglus> pabs3: did you find the explanation of why the linking is how it is?
08:23 < dooglus> I don't think I've ever read it
08:24 < pabs3> I thought I read it in one of the tutorials (maybe the pdf), couldn't find it then tho
08:26 < dooglus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGRh4HtrbP8 <-- the recursive picture anim.
08:27 < dooglus> "Creating_Shapes" says: "Despite the fact that they are two separate layers, their vertices parameter has already been linked--so you can select either one and move its ducks around and the other one will also change."
08:27 < dooglus> that's not quite true - if you move its 'position' ducks, the other one *won't* change - and that's pxegeek's complaint exactly.
08:28 < pabs3> it won't? I could have swore it did when I did that tutorial
08:28 < pabs3> ahh, yeah, misread, woops
08:28 < dooglus> no, only the verticies are linked
08:28 < dooglus> the green 'position' ducks aren't
08:29 < pabs3> yep
08:29 < dooglus> when I change something in svn, should I document it in the wiki?
08:29 < pabs3> depends on what it is
08:29 < dooglus> I'm not clear what the wiki is documenting - svn?  or the latest release?
08:29 < dooglus> the draw tool, for instance.
08:29 < dooglus> it used to have 'auto connect', which is now "auto link" and "auto extend" - 2 separate options
08:30 < dooglus> sometimes you want to create new lines, even when you draw on the end of an existing line
08:30 < dooglus> (rather than extending the old line)
08:30 < pabs3> hmm
08:31 < pabs3> I think it is worth mentioning the new version too
08:40 < dooglus> see http://wiki.synfig.com/Draw_tool#Options
08:40 < dooglus> I mention 'not in svn' and 'only in svn'
08:40 < dooglus> when the next release happens, we can search the wiki for 'svn' and fix accordingly
08:43 < pabs3> sounds good
08:52 < pabs3> I'm definitely thinking the bline tool needs 2 link options - vertices, center
09:01 < dooglus> would you even not want both verticies and centre linked?
09:01 < dooglus> and if so, wouldn't you just right-click and 'disconnect'?
09:02 < dooglus> hmmm.  right-click>disconnect crashed studio :(
09:06 < pabs3> I suppose. you might want to draw a whole ton of blines, then unlinking each one would be tedious
09:06 < dooglus> ok
09:06 < dooglus> or even one bline with a ton of verticies
09:07 < dooglus> unlinking each vertex is a separate click
09:07 < dooglus> (and doesb't work, anyway?)
09:07 < dooglus> s/b/n
09:07 < dooglus> does it fail for you too?  try unlinking a vertex
09:08 < pabs3> can't you unlink the whole bline?
09:08 < dooglus> I don't think so
09:09 < dooglus> ok, yes, I can :)
09:09 < pabs3> you can, but only if you select one (outline|region|gradient) at a time
09:16 < dooglus> if I try disconnecting a single vertex, the bline no longer follows its dotted line
09:17 < dooglus> and if I try disconnecting a single tangent, it doesn't seem to disconnect at all
09:17 < dooglus> not sure what's going on with this
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10:16 < pabs3> hmm, jhbuild is in debian. should prob add a recipie for it to the build instructions wiki
10:28  * pabs3 pokes libmng in the eye
10:33  * nox-Hand picks up the eye that fell out of libmng and cooks it for his cat
10:45  * pabs3 notes his eyes are bleeding after reading the gim[
10:45  * pabs3 notes his eyes are bleeding after reading the gimp's mng code
10:46  * nox-Hand gets a bigger pan
11:08 < pabs3> :)
11:08 < pabs3> some of the way towards a mod_mng
11:09 < pabs3> just gotta figure out what the gimp is doing with all these png structs
11:09  * nox-Hand wants this program :P
11:26 < pabs3> uggh, the gimp writes a temporary png file for each frame of an mng, loads it into ram and decodes it using it's own manual method of reading png files (instead of using libpng)
11:55 < igli> yuck!
11:56 < nox-Hand> igli: eh?
11:57 < igli> heh just what the gimp is doing nox-Hand
11:58 < nox-Hand> :|
11:58 < igli> nox-Hand: why don't you install it then?
11:58 < nox-Hand> igli: Ubuntu failed
11:58 < nox-Hand> But..
11:58 < nox-Hand> I used advanced. 
11:58 < nox-Hand> My whole HDA is to be for Ubuntu, so if I just install it there it hsould figure it all. Then I can do the mounting manually :)
11:58 < nox-Hand> That's all I need changed anyway
11:58 < nox-Hand> So.... later today perhaps :D
11:59 < igli> ffs, use gentoo :)
12:24 < nox-Hand> igli: I am ;D
12:25 < pabs3> ohyay http://libpng.org/pub/png/book/chapter12.html
12:26 < igli> nice link pabs3
12:26  * nox-Hand gets back to writing! \o/
12:35 < pabs3> aww, no fair, with png, you can just do png_write_row, but with mng you have to manually call zlib compression functions
12:40 < pabs3> interesting, mng can have jpeg data in it, and also give an alpha channel to the jpeg data
12:51 < pabs3> hmmm, question for everyone: png supports 16bit RGB values, but the synfig mod_png does not. where should I write a todo item for this? I'm thinking I'd rather not bloat the tracker (or the wiki) with these myriad items, so maybe the TODO in the source code?
12:53  * pabs3 adds links to the todo files to the wishlist/feature trackers
12:55 < pabs3> dooglus: check out the mingw32* packages in debian
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13:12 < pabs3> ooh, just noticed "Network-distributed rendering" in the synfig TODO list
13:13 < pabs3> that'd be cool
13:36 < zotz> that would be nice...
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 28 00:00:02 2007