--- Log opened Fri Mar 30 00:00:02 2007
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06:13 < pxegeek> Another one done
06:13 < pxegeek> http://pxe.geek.googlepages.com/zoom
06:14 < pxegeek> No unexpected crashes!  - no inverted rectangles with gradients.
06:15 < pxegeek> Unfortunately most of the rest of the ones to do, do have inverted region gradients, unless I can figure another way to do them.
06:17 < pabs3> hmm, I recon that needs some blur in the middle bit
06:18 < pxegeek> Looks pretty cleanly cut on the tango icon to me.
06:19 < pxegeek> Of course, at 20x20 pixels, it all looks kindof blurry when you zoom in on it.
06:20 < pabs3> ahh
06:21 < pabs3> I just meant it might look nicer
06:21 < pabs3> anyways
06:21 < pxegeek> How closely do you want to stick to the style guidelines?  :)
06:22 < pabs3> I don't really mind, I spose they are there for a reason
06:25 < pxegeek> I just tried it with a blur in the glass region.  It looks pretty much the same, only fuzzier :)
06:25 < pabs3> have you got any screenshots of the current .sif tango icons vs the old icons?
06:25 < pxegeek> http://pxe.geek.googlepages.com
06:26 < pabs3> ah, so all the icons on the right are done as .sif already?
06:26 < pxegeek> Scratch that - that's the tango icons, not the sif icons
06:26 < pxegeek> They should look pretty similar though
06:27 < pabs3> ah, ok
06:27 < pabs3> have you tried replacing the old ones with new ones you created?
06:27  * pabs3 would like to see that
06:28 < pxegeek> I can copy the icons over and rename them...
06:29 < pxegeek> I tried it with the first couple I did.  I've only got 5/16, but I can go ahead an do that.
06:29 < pxegeek> There will be a short delay....
06:29 < pabs3> :) coolies
06:30 < pabs3> madsen: how goes the mac stuff? should we continue delaying, or just release without it?
06:47 < pxegeek> pabs - http://pxegeek.home.comcast.net /synfig/sf_icons_wip.JPG
06:47 < pxegeek> without the space in the middle....
06:48 < pxegeek> http://pxegeek.home.comcast.net/synfig/sf_icons_wip.JPG
06:48 < pxegeek> I have the extra tools enabled :)
06:48 < pxegeek> actually at 6/16
06:49 < pabs3> cool, looking good
06:53 < pxegeek> As Zebedee once said "Time for bed!"
06:53 < pxegeek> 'night
06:53 < pabs3> :) nite
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07:56 < pabs3> yay, mod_mng compiles
07:56 < pabs3> (but doesn't yet work)
08:01  * pabs3 learns how to use zlib
08:27 < pabs3> hmm, blines seem kinda non-curved at 1600% zoom
09:27 < pabs3> bah, fucking mng segfaults
09:30 < pabs3> can't get past mng_initialise cause it always segfaults
09:32 < pabs3> gah, how dumb, it expects you to use calloc instead of malloc
09:34 < pabs3> hmm, no crashes, but a zero sized file
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10:39 < pabs3> aha, fixed that bug, now I have to work out if it makes valid MNGs
10:42 < pabs3> definitely does not :(
10:43  * pabs3 installs pngcheck
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11:58 < Koba> hello?
12:01 < pabs3> hi Koba :)
12:01 < Koba> oh this works!
12:01 < pabs3> of course :)
12:02 < Koba> I thought I needed to register my nickname...or something
12:02 < Koba> new to irc and this firefox extension..
12:02 < pabs3> nah
12:03 < Koba> so...I went about finding this channel...cause I tried synfig yesterday..
12:03 < Koba> well...I had tried it before..
12:03 < Koba> didn't really click back then...real buggy..
12:04 < Koba> in short...it is awesome isn't it?
12:04 < pabs3> :) it is, unfortunately there are lots of problems still
12:04 < Koba> I was wondering how development is going.
12:05 < Koba> see if I can drum up support (maybe)
12:05 < pabs3> pretty slowly, only a couple of ppl working on the code atm
12:05 < Koba> shame..
12:05 < Koba> but I noticed significantly less crashes..
12:05 < Koba> (since I last tried it that is)
12:06 < pabs3> yeah, dooglus has been smashing them into smithereens
12:06 < Koba> what I don't understand is this..
12:06 < Koba> doesn't synfig have commercial roots with Voria?
12:07 < Koba> why is it so buggy as it seems to have been used in production..
12:07 < Koba> doesn't seem to make sense...maybe I missed a bit of history
12:08 < pabs3> it was developed by them, I've no idea how good it was in those days
12:08 < pabs3> some of the things are due to newer versions of other projects - gtk, ffmpeg and so on
12:08 < Koba> I see...
12:08 < pabs3> but most of the crashes/etc are code probs
12:08 < Koba> you a developer?
12:09 < pabs3> well, I'm trying to be :)
12:09 < Koba> cool...
12:09 < pabs3> I've commit access to the code and stuff
12:09 < pabs3> working on a mod_mng at the moment
12:09 < Koba> what is that? ;-)
12:09 < Koba> module managment?
12:10 < Koba> multiuser network graphic?
12:10 < Koba> many nice goodies?
12:10 < pabs3> hehe
12:10 < pabs3> http://www.libpng.org/pub/mng/
12:11 < Koba> ah...I almost guess right
12:11 < pabs3> an animated image format based on png, like gif
12:11 < Koba> excellent...supports alpha?
12:11 < pabs3> yeah
12:11 < pabs3> unfortunately the reference library is horrid
12:11 < Koba> that said...I was surprised that synfig doesn't seem to export to vector formats
12:12 < Koba> one of the first new features after bug crushing (imho) is  svg import/export
12:12 < pabs3> just thinking about that makes my head hurt, I don't think it would be very easy to map synfig's objects to svg/swf/cgm
12:13 < Koba> but a lossless raster format like mng would be useful too
12:13 < Koba> hmm...can't you get data on the bslpline handles?
12:14 < Koba> and then radius and position properties of circles?
12:14 < pabs3> I suppose, there are lots of different effects that just couldn't be represented though
12:14 < Koba> of course...
12:14 < Koba> only blur I think...as inkscape has that now
12:15 < pabs3> reason I'm doing mod_mng was just cus someone asked for it on the wishlist wiki page and to learn the code a bit
12:15 < Koba> mng sounds useful...
12:15 < Koba> is it smaller than a png sequence?
12:17 < pabs3> it can be made to be, cus you can have diffs from the previous frame instead of a full frame
12:18 < Koba> hmm...very nice
12:19 < Koba> anyway...you could always use potrace to get vector images from raster...
12:19 < Koba> not ideal but it works well enough
12:20 < pabs3> yeah
12:20 < Koba> one thing that confused me were groups...do they exist?
12:20 < Koba> or is it all encapsulation now?
12:20 < pabs3> I've no idea about groups, other than that they are a separate thing to encapsulation
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12:23 < pabs3> hmm: 69M star.mng  629K star.gif(incomplete)  208K star.mpg   68K star.sif
12:24  * pabs3 needs a better test sif for this mng stuff
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12:25 < Koba> hmm
12:26 < Koba> anyway...I think I'm off for now
12:26 < Koba> unfortunately I am no coder
12:26 < pabs3> ok, cya another time then :)
12:26 < Koba> all I can do is show support
12:26 < Koba> so keep up the good work!
12:27 < pabs3> some cool animations for the Gallery page on the wiki would be good :)
12:27 < pabs3> thanks :)
12:27 < Koba> no problem
12:27 < Koba> see ya
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14:52 < dooglus> hi Gniarf
14:52 < Gniarf> \o/
14:52 < dooglus> |
14:58 < Gniarf> CNET mentionned synfig a day ago, I'm checking some links and sites, maybe I'll post a news item on a french site
14:59 < Gniarf> I guess voria.com web site is out of order, is that rather temporary or long term ?
15:00 < dooglus> I've never tried before.
15:00 < dooglus> but Voria are no more, I think
15:00 < dooglus> so it's not surprising that the website is down
15:00 < dooglus> do you have the URL where CNET mentioned synfig?
15:00 < Gniarf> w8
15:02 < Gniarf> from the front page, http://blogs.download.com/Daily-Download/post.php?p=1404?tag=nefd.aof
15:03 < Gniarf> they took each item of the newer adobe suite and showed 'free' replacements and discussed their usability
15:04 < dooglus> strange: "There's also what seems like several metric tons of documentation and tutorials on the Synfig wiki"
15:04 < dooglus> there's not very much documentation at all, really
15:05 < Gniarf> I played with it a bit yesterday
15:05 < dooglus> it's overdue for a new release really
15:05 < dooglus> the most recent release has lots of bugs which have since been fixed
15:05 < dooglus> (and some which still haven't, of course)
15:06 < Gniarf> the worst misnommer would be that synfig is a "flash studio replacement", while it should be compared with animation tools like Moho maybe
15:06 < dooglus> I don't think synfig is intended as a flash replacement - it doesn't generate .swf files
15:08 < dooglus> http://dpreview-cnet.com.com/Synfig-Studio/3003-2186_4-10655201.html?tag=lst-0-1 says "Synfig is a powerful program for those who want to create Flash animations for free"
15:08 < dooglus> except - synfig doesn't create flash animations!
15:09 < Gniarf> not even on linux with some external tool ?
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15:32 < Bombe> No, I think Flash and synfig are pretty much incompatible. :)
15:39 < Gniarf> I guess I misread a page here or there
15:39 < Gniarf> .sfi are not exportable or reusable, I guess ?
15:40 < Bombe> You can render a .sif file to different targets (like ppm, png or ffmpeg/avi/mpeg).
15:40 < Bombe> And you can include a .sif file in another .sif file.
15:41 < Bombe> So they are both exportable and reusable. ;)
15:43 < Gniarf> well, the format of those movies was my next question
15:43 < Gniarf> inkscape is now really popular in france
15:45 < Bombe> Yes, but inkscape completely lacks animation features.
15:56 < Gniarf> can it import some premade vectoriel art ? like cliparts, .ai files or even basic svg
15:58 < Gniarf> should not be necessary
16:00 < Bombe> Hmm, .svg import is planned afaik.
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16:09 < Dr3amZ> i have some troubles to compile synfig-studio. I get error message that: checking for synfig ETL sigc++2.0... configure: eroor: ** Unable to set up dependent libraries. any ideas how to solve?
16:10 < Dr3amZ> ETL and synfic core has compiled succesfully
16:10 < Dr3amZ> *synfig-core
17:05 < dooglus> Dr3amZ: yes, I think that's mentioned in the wiki
17:05 < dooglus> http://wiki.synfig.com/Build_instructions
17:05 < dooglus> General: some distros have a pkg-config that doesn't look in /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig by default. So if you are installing in anywhere other than the system pkg-config path, please run "export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig" or similar before building or installing anything.
17:20 < zloc> Gniarf, I think you may be able to get flash from some of the things that sif can render to.
17:20 < zloc> basic flash in any case...
17:21 < Dr3amZ> dooglus: I got it working, thnks :)
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17:31 < zloc> http://www.luar.com.hk/blog/?p=669
17:42 < Gniarf> ok
17:45 < zloc> you can also let youtube make your flash for you Gniarf ...
17:45 < Gniarf> I had not this kind of flash animation in mind
17:46 < zloc> ??
17:46 < Gniarf> anyway
17:47 < zloc> http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=zotzbro - the animations there were done in synfig and uploaded as mpegs but youtube converted them to flash
17:47 < zloc> what sort of animations did you have in mind?
17:49 < Gniarf> non-interactive flash .swf (and about as exciting and interesting as animated .gif)
17:49 < zloc> i don't know much about flash myself to know what the different types are...
17:50 < Gniarf> so if I want to make a movie with a small, vector-based car going from left to right I have to draw a car in synfig myself (since I can't import vectors files or clip-art)
17:50 < Gniarf> at least once and either deform it or draw another one for the final frame and let the tool interpolate ?
17:50 < zloc> that is what i did for my animations
17:51 < zloc> i am no great artist as you can see
17:51 < Gniarf> I'm just scratching my head a bit
17:51 < zloc> i saw some talk somewhere about an svg to sif conversion tool iirc...
17:52 < zloc> may not exists yet though
17:52 < Gniarf> I did some Macromedia Director about 10 years ago, at that time pictures came from photoshop or other tools, you could include some Illustrator tools
17:54 < Gniarf> you COULD paint and draw a bit in Director itself but it was not really a good idea because the customer later wants to change pictures and logos, so most artwork you did inside this (prioritary) tool would be lost, not exportable
17:55 < Gniarf> (and the tools for that in Director were quite limited)
17:56 < Gniarf> on the other hand, those tools in synfig are impressive
17:57 < zloc> so, is your problem that you do not want to draw the art in synfig?
17:57 < Gniarf> not really
17:58 < Gniarf> I'm trying to figure if any work done in synfig would be "stuck" there
17:59 < zloc> so, you want to be able to export the objects/artwork to and svg file for instance?
17:59 < Gniarf> no, no
18:00 < zloc> it is not stuck there in that it can be rendered and the rendered work can be manipulated outside of synfig.
18:00 < Gniarf> I'll harass some local artist and see how he works
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18:00 < zloc> here is what i did....
18:00 < zloc> make synfig animation
18:00 < Gniarf> because those guys do in 5 minutes what I do in 1 hour
18:00 < zloc> render to a dv file
18:01 < zloc> load dv up in kdenlive or cinellera cv
18:01 < zloc> bring in sound track, or another dv file
18:01 < zloc> edit and re render...
18:01 < zloc> convert dv to mpeg
18:01 < zloc> upload mpeg to youtube
18:02 < zloc> at least you know some local artists
18:03 < Gniarf> I know I'm none
18:04 < Gniarf> and they can make a new drawing just as easily as I drink a beer - or worse, while they drink a beer.
18:04 < Gniarf> so maybe its not a big deal for them
18:06 < dooglus> Gniarf: at the moment, there's no way to import or export vector art into or out of synfig, as far as I know
18:06 < dooglus> Gniarf: synfig is still in very early stages - it's pre 1.0
18:06 < zloc> for 3d, belnder has this bubbling: http://www.katorlegaz.com/3d_models/index.php
18:06 < Gniarf> I tried it
18:07 < Gniarf> (synfig)
18:07 < dooglus> Gniarf: but nothing is 'stuck' in synfig, because it's open source, and so you are free to write any kind of exporter you like.
18:07 < dooglus> Gniarf: (or pay somebody else to write it for you)
18:07 < zloc> it would be nice if synfig had an object repository for those of us who are not great graphic artists.
18:08 < zloc> dooglus, was anyone ever serious about synfig <-> svg ???
18:08 < Gniarf> dooglus : I know all this stuff, I'm just pondering to write a paper on this tool for a local audience
18:09 < dooglus> zloc: I don't know.  I know very little about the history of synfig.  I just fixed a few of the more obvious bugs.
18:09 < zloc> k
18:09 < Gniarf> therefor wondering 'obvious' questions and how people would use it
18:09 < dooglus> zloc: and this one that pxegeek found a few days ago is driving me mad - I've been trying to fix it for days now, and getting nowhere.  grrrr
18:13  * pxegeek is very sorry
18:13 < pxegeek> but I think it will greatly improve stability when you get it nailed!   
18:14 < dooglus> it seems that one thread is allocating some memory, another thread is trying to draw on that memory, and the 1st thread deallocates it when the 2nd thread is part-way through drawing on it
18:14 < dooglus> but I can't see why
18:15 < pxegeek> I didn't realize how much  I used inverted regions.... until pabs mentioned that was a trigger for it.
18:15 < pxegeek> that doesn't sound like a good combination.  
18:15 < pxegeek> Not knowing much about code....
18:16 < pxegeek> ...isn't there some sort of semaphore for multiple threads?
18:16 < Gniarf> on a related theme, the included .sif files in samples/ look good
18:16 < pxegeek> spinlocks... I think is the MS driver mechanism
18:17 < pxegeek> dooglus if there's anything I can do to help...  I'm looking at the remaining icons, and nearly all have gradients across them
18:17 < pxegeek> ;)
18:18 < dooglus> pxegeek: I don't really understand what you're using the inverted rectangle for
18:19 < pxegeek> when you put a gradient layer in a sif, it is applied across the whole region
18:19 < pxegeek> I mean canvas
18:19 < dooglus> pxegeek: and also, the AlphaOver composition type is deprecated
18:19 < dooglus> ok
18:19 < pxegeek> If you put it under a region layer, you get teh gradient everywhere but in the region. 
18:20 < pxegeek> If you want a region with a gradient, say a rectangular icon with a gradient across it, you have to invert the rectangle
18:22 < pxegeek> I'm going to try and so a transform of the gradient region and see if I can get the same effect as a work around.  
18:23 < dooglus> how about putting the gradient on top of the rectangle, and using 'onto'?
18:41  * pxegeek is scanning some photos at the moment - will try that in a bit though...
18:41 < dooglus> I just tried it and it seems to produce exactly the same effect
18:42 < dooglus> you have:  rectangle (inverted) (alpha over) on top of gradient (composite)
18:42 < dooglus> I suggest replacing it with: gradient (onto) on top of rectangle (not inverted, composite)
18:43 < pxegeek> I think I always did it that way because I either saw it in the examples or found that method by trial and error
18:44 < dooglus> you're using a white inverted rectangle to mask out the outside parts of the gradient
18:44 < dooglus> and I'm suggesting you use 'onto' to request just the inside parts of the gradient
18:44 < dooglus> 2 ways of achieving the same effect.
19:30 < pxegeek> Yes, warping a gradient to fill a four sided polygon works
19:31 < pxegeek> Onto works better as any region can be mapped.
19:34 < dooglus> I still get crashes though
19:34 < dooglus> even when I'm not using inverted rectangles...
19:35 < pxegeek> I can relate :)
19:35 < pxegeek> I just tried that same technique of putting a gradient onto a region, and it's not rendering on the canvas
19:37 < pxegeek> Hmm, works for rectangles, not for regions so far
19:37 < pxegeek> I take back my comment of 6 minutes ago... ;)
19:37 < dooglus> aah - you have 2 inverted rectangles in your .sif and I only changed one of them.
19:39 < pxegeek> onto only seems to work on new regions, not previously existing ones???
19:39 < dooglus> huh?
19:39 < dooglus> I replaced both inverted rectangles, and now transform-scale.sif no longer crashes.
19:40 < dooglus> can you show me a .sif where onto isn't working?
19:40 < pxegeek> D'oh!  I had alpha at 0 on that region
19:40 < pxegeek> got it working now
19:40 < dooglus> ok
19:42 < pxegeek> Ha! Much better. 
19:42 < dooglus> I wonder - is it just inverted rectangles which cause the crash?
19:42 < dooglus> what about inverted circles?
19:43 < pxegeek> I think inverted regions cause issues.  I've got a work in progress that only started having problems once I started adding shadeding
19:44 < pxegeek> shadeding?   !
19:48 < dooglus> I've got a .sif file which contains a single layer - an inverted rectangle
19:48 < dooglus> no gradients at all - nothing but a single rectangle
19:48 < dooglus> and that crashes when I zoom it
19:48 < zloc> man you are rewritering the english languagers pxegeek 
19:50 < dooglus> it crashes for any compose type other than 'straight', too
19:55 < dooglus> languagers, zloc?
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 31 00:00:02 2007