--- Log opened Thu Apr 05 00:00:56 2007
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03:11 < dooglus> morning :)
03:11 < pabs3> heya :)
03:13 < pabs3> woke up thinking about a use for that colour library developed by the xchat-gnome folks - thought the palette dialog could have a "separate colours visually" button
03:14 < pabs3> And it'd modify the selected colours in the palette
03:25 < pabs3> Bombe: have a good party :)
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03:49 < pabs3> dooglus: hey, the second item on the wishlist wiki page, is that pretty much working now with all your work on the draw tool?
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05:15  * pabs3 hugs dyloxin :D
05:39 < pxegeek_> I'm going to stop using Miranda as an IRC client
05:39 < pxegeek_> Dyloxin seemed upset and leave when I joined or said something
05:40 < pxegeek_> How do I persuade freenode that I'm the same as pxegeek?  Will that nick timeout after a while and allow me to resuse it?
05:40 < pxegeek_> Or will I be forced to live with an underscore...
05:42 < pabs3> you need to log out of irc in miranda
05:42 < pabs3> cus it is still connected: --- [pxegeek] (n=Miranda@c-71-59-140-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net) : pxe geek
05:50 < pxegeek_> huh.  doesn't show in my list of users on #synfig
05:50 < pxegeek_> hang on
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05:51 < pxegeek> Yay!  That did it.
05:51 < pabs3> :)
05:52 < pxegeek> Looks like Dooglus' ubuntu synfig install has Tangoized icons in the top two rows
05:57  * pxegeek goes to download the latest Windows build
05:57 < pxegeek> Memo to self - move new icons before uninstalling...
05:58 < pabs3> he probably installed the tango icon theme
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07:11 < pxegeek> Ah, could be.  The Windows Tango theme installer I used didn't have patches for GTK.
07:28 < pabs3> got a patch from Debian developer Martin Michlmayr who is building the entire archive with g++ 4.3 :)
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12:03 < dooglus> I didn't install anything - I don't have a hard disk drive to install anything onto.  :)
12:04 < dooglus> I'm guessing the live CD I'm using came with the tango icon theme by default
12:07 < dooglus> pabs3: re. wishlist item #2 - it's pretty much like that now, except that linking only works for bline ducks.  we still can't draw bicycles, remember?
12:10 < pabs3> ah, ok
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12:23 < dooglus> I found that 'region filling' bug yesterday
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12:24 < dooglus> it was in a line of code with the comment 'so we can be awesome'
12:28 < pabs3> would it be in the svn diff?
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12:38 < dooglus> yes
12:38  * pabs3 looks
12:39 < dooglus> r425 I think
12:41 < pabs3> hah
12:41 < dooglus> so only 2 tiny changes were needed for the new gcc?
12:41 < dooglus> that's amazing
12:42 < pabs3> thats just for synfig, dunno if studio got built yet
12:43 < dooglus> ok
12:43 < dooglus> any thoughts on this question?  http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/regions.html
12:43 < pabs3> ug, I hate being shaped
12:44 < dooglus> I thought I read in the code that it counts how many lines it has to cross to get to a point - if it's odd then you're inside and if it's even then you're outside
12:44 < dooglus> but that's not what I'm seeing in that image
12:44 < dooglus> 'being shaped'?
12:45 < pabs3> when I go over my quota my isp cuts my speed down to a bit better than dialup
12:45 < dooglus> oh, I see.
12:45 < dooglus> different use of the word 'shape'...
12:45 < pabs3> :)
12:46 < dooglus> the code is in layer_shape.cpp, you see...
12:46 < pabs3> which region in that image do you find that the rule does not apply to?
12:46 < pabs3> ahh, the yellow one, small loop
12:47 < pabs3> and the top one, middle bit
12:47 < dooglus> yes, but also the innermost region in the blue one
12:47 < dooglus> yes
12:47 < dooglus> I don't know if it's a bug, or if it's just using some complex rule I can't spot
12:48 < pabs3> I'd say its a bug, might ask darco about that though
12:48 < pabs3> hmm, how come gaim dissappeard
12:48 < dooglus> it did?
12:48 < pabs3> crashed or something
12:48 < dooglus> firefox kept disappearing for me that last day or two
12:48 < dooglus> so I just installed a mozilla.com build instead.
12:49 < pabs3> anyway, darco is asleep, and I better get ready to go out
12:49 < dooglus> ok
12:49 < dooglus> I asked darco yesterday if he could make .sif files for the bigger animations available
12:49 < dooglus> he said he would
12:50 < pabs3> awesome, that'd be great!
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12:51 < pabs3> I asked him about plant, said it was always pretty experimental, but worked nicely sometimes. he couldn't find any rendered examples of it though
12:51 < zotz> any chance of an official "sif package" format being pu in place so I can put stuff up at ourmedia.org?
12:52 < zotz> "remember talking about a collect for publication function?
12:52 < dooglus> yes
12:52 < dooglus> I remember
12:52 < zotz> ah
12:56 < dooglus> what stuff needs collecting?
12:57 < dooglus> .sif file and any images at least
12:57 < dooglus> anything else?
12:59 < pabs3> probably best to create a zip file with everything in it
13:01 < dooglus> yes, but what 'everything'
13:02 < dooglus> if zotz can manually determine what's needed, then publishing a .zip file is fine
13:02 < pabs3> the sif and the import layers I
13:02 < pabs3> 'd guess
13:02 < dooglus> I don't imagine any collect-for-publishing feature will be added very soon
13:02 < zotz> dooglus, I can do it manually - I would choose a tgz, but still
13:02 < dooglus> I'm still taking baby steps around the code
13:02 < zotz> k
13:02 < dooglus> zotz: I would suggest doing it manually for now.
13:03 < zotz> will do
13:04 < pabs3> tgz is more of a unixy thing, I recon zip is more widespread
13:04 < pabs3> but anyway
13:04 < dooglus> winzip handles .tgz ok
13:04 < dooglus> but I don't know about other common windows archivers
13:04 < pabs3> ah, ok
13:04 < dooglus> you're right - zip is by far the most common
13:05 < dooglus> windows supports it natively I think
13:06 < pabs3> so, I'm leaving for sydney mondayish
13:07 < dooglus> good luck with the move
13:07 < pabs3> hmm, I should commit the incomplete mod_png before I leave so I don't forget it
13:07 < pabs3> er, mod_mng
13:08 < pabs3> thanks :)
13:08 < dooglus> what state's it in?
13:08 < pabs3> NSW - east coast
13:08 < dooglus> heh
13:08 < dooglus> state, as in condition :)
13:08 < dooglus> it, as in mod_png
13:09 < dooglus> er, mod_png
13:09 < dooglus> er, er, mod_mng
13:10 < pabs3> ahhh :)
13:11 < pabs3> it runs, but the mngs it makes seem to be invalid. plus I don't really have any good viewer for mng files
13:12 < dooglus> mplayer doesn't play them?
13:12 < pabs3> doesn't seem to
13:14 < pabs3> ok, seems konq can
13:14 < pabs3> but it doesn't play all, some valid samples don
13:14 < pabs3> 't work
13:14 < dooglus> did you try "showimg - A feature-rich image viewer"?
13:15 < dooglus>  ShowImg is a feature-rich image viewer which can display numerous formats,
13:15 < dooglus>  including JPEG, PNG, GIF (animated) and MNG.
13:15 < pabs3> nope, installing now
13:15 < dooglus> I'd install it here, but I don't have space for all those Qt libs (After unpacking 82.2MB of additional disk space will be used.)
13:17 < pabs3> urg, aptitude wanted to install kmail, damn recommends
13:18 < dooglus> I just use apt-get
13:18 < dooglus> I don't see much extra value in aptitude for what I use ti for
13:25 < pabs3> heh, nice splash screen
13:25 < dooglus> I've not seen it
13:25 < dooglus> I only just found it by running a "apt-cache search mng"
13:27 < pabs3> hmm, prints a lot of these on the mng files I made: MNG error 11: Function is invalid at this point; chunk IDAT; subcode 0:0
13:27 < dooglus> what does it do on known-good mng files?
13:29 < pabs3> seems to work well
13:29 < pabs3> anyway, I'll commit it tomorrow, work on it later 
13:29 < dooglus> ok
13:29 < dooglus> I'll take a look when you commit it
13:29 < pabs3> cool, thanks
13:29 < dooglus> it would be nice to have a lossless format for movies
13:29 < pabs3> I think I'm just missing the FRAM chunk
13:29 < zotz> do you even know of any cameras that do lossless?
13:30 < zotz> (that don't need the budget of small nations?)
13:30 < pabs3> be wary, you'll need to read the PNG/MNG specs
13:30 < pabs3> dooglus: isn't DV/?miniDV? lossless ?
13:30  * pabs3 doesn't
13:30 < zotz> nope, not if i recall correctly
13:31 < pabs3> hmm, ok
13:31 < zotz> there is lossy compression in frames iirc
13:31 < zotz> let me google
13:31 < zotz> HD is worse too iirc
13:32 < pabs3> :/
13:32 < pabs3> anyway, gotta go
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13:32 < dooglus> I think .gif is supposed to be lossless
13:33 < zotz> tiff is
13:33 < zotz> iirc
13:33 < dooglus> but in synfig it is (a) buggy and (b) very slow to encode to
13:33 < dooglus> zotz: for animation?
13:33 < zotz> nope just for images
13:33 < dooglus> zotz: I didn't hear about tiff being used for animation
13:33 < dooglus> right.
13:33 < dooglus> I'm looking for a lossless animation format
13:33 < dooglus> ie. movie format
13:34 < dooglus> have you made any more animations recently?
13:35 < zotz> ome image file formats, like PNG or GIF, use only lossless compression, while others like TIFF and MNG may use either lossless or lossy methods.
13:35 < zotz> oops
13:35 < zotz> png is lossless
13:35 < zotz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_data_compression
13:35 < zotz> tiff can be
13:35 < dooglus> ok
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13:36 < zotz> i have seen some video programs that can convert from jpg or png to video and back
13:36 < zotz> iirc
13:37 < dooglus> yes, I use mencoder for that
13:37 < zotz> i think ffmpeg can do it as well
13:37 < dooglus> so I render to a bunch of .png files using synfig, then encode after
13:37 < dooglus> that's right, it can
13:38 < zotz> kino onthe graphical front iirc
13:40 < zotz> http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/amia-l/2005/05/msg00109.html
13:40 < zotz> talks about lossless video compression
13:40 < dooglus> ok
13:47 < zotz> i may have been wrong about dv, I am searching now, but I have a dim memory about it being lossy...
13:49 < zotz> Standard digital video cameras compress video at a ratio of 5 to 1 - just found that statement...
13:49 < dooglus> I'm guessing it's an option
13:50 < dooglus> like with tiff and mng
13:50 < zotz> still searcing for a good explanation
13:57 < zotz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animation_codec - The Animation codec is a fast lossless video codec created by Apple Computer
13:58 < zotz> The Animation codec uses run-length encoding, and as such works well for traditional 2-D animation where there are large areas of constant color.
14:01 < dooglus> interesting
14:21 < zotz> http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html#colorSampling - not sure i understand it all, but this is what i was remembering when i said dv was not lossless...
14:26 < dooglus> sounds confusing :)
14:32 < zotz> well
14:32 < zotz> no one can be an expert in everything these days and that is one area i am vastly ignorant in...
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 06 00:00:56 2007