--- Log opened Fri Oct 26 00:00:04 2007
--- Day changed Fri Oct 26 2007
00:00 < genete> create a file, export some values and save the file
00:00 < genete> now create a new one, then file->import the previous one
00:00 < genete> the exported values are not accesible by the importer canvas although the imported one is exported (be undependent of the file)
00:01 < genete> now
00:01 < genete> if you create a file and save it wihout exported values
00:01 < genete> and then create a new one an export some values and then file->import the previous one
00:02 < genete> then the imported file (canvas) can see the parent exported values and link to them
00:02 < CIA-33> synfig: dooglus * r979 /synfig-core/trunk/src/modules/mod_mng/trgt_mng.cpp: I think the gamma was backwards before. Rendered .mng images were displaying too brightly.
00:02 < genete> (I'll repeat again because it crashed when close the file...)
00:02 < dooglus> ok
00:02 < dooglus> I'll brb...
00:02 < dooglus> changing computers
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00:12 < genete> I've repeated it again and seems to work
00:12 < dooglus> ok, good
00:12 < dooglus> maybe make a wiki page about it?
00:12 < dooglus> I wanted to ask you...
00:12 < dooglus> how did you test .mng rendering?  It's not built by default.
00:12 < genete> I didn't
00:13 < genete> As I've just posted in the wiki I was dreaming
00:13 < genete> the result is only the answer from synfig to an unknown format
00:13 < genete> you render to myfile.xyz and the answer is the same
00:14 < dooglus> ok
00:14 < dooglus> I just saw your answer
00:14 < genete> Regarding to the wiki I'll make a draft only. It it too late for me.
00:14 < dooglus> I answered all the other notes in the Render options page
00:14 < dooglus> everything should work now I think
00:14 < genete> Can be called Reuse exported value nodes?
00:15 < dooglus> I put instructions for getting .yuv working too
00:15 < dooglus> yes
00:15 < genete> I saw them... Mmm I usually have converted from a serie of png to yuv using png2yuv from mpegtools package
00:16 < genete> and it always give me a recognizable yuv file...
00:16 < genete> using ffmpeg -i file.yuv -sameq file.avi works for me without need to tell the size...
00:17 < genete> the yuv file should have the size info inside...
00:17 < dooglus> oh, interesting
00:17 < dooglus> I'll look at it.
00:17 < genete> also exists jpeg2yuv
00:18 < genete> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1820315&group_id=144022&atid=757416
00:18 < genete> a small bug for you to don't loose training...
00:18 < dooglus> ha.  thanks :)
00:23 < dooglus> so how exactly do you use png2yuv, and how do you display the .yuv movie?
00:26 < dooglus> oh, I see
00:26 < dooglus> never mind..
00:41 < genete> http://wiki.synfig.com/Resuse_Exported_ValueNodes
00:43 < dooglus> what happens if I export A(=B+C) but I don't export B or C?
00:44 < genete> you cannot control A in any way
00:44 < genete> A = constant
00:45 < dooglus> oh, ok
00:45 < genete> can change it but it is a constant value (doesn't depend on any other one)
00:45 < dooglus> nice wiki page, and very quickly put together :)
00:45 < genete> wanted to go bed quick ;-)
00:45 < dooglus> heh
00:45 < dooglus> I'll fix the yuv target so it puts the sizes in the header
00:45 < dooglus> that's easy enough to do
00:45 < genete> please correct my english if needed
00:46 < dooglus> ok
00:46 < dooglus> maybe tomorrow when I wake up - I'm a bit tired too right now
00:46 < genete> should I put the new wikipage at the tutorials or where?
00:46 < dooglus> yes, sounds reasonable
00:47 < genete> intermediate or advanced?
00:47 < dooglus> I expect we can use the 'categories' feature of the wiki now it's updated
00:47 < dooglus> so that can be added to categories 'tutorial', 'exporting', 'nodes', 'converting'
00:47 < dooglus> I guess that's how it works
00:48 < dooglus> then all pages in the same category get a banner at the bottom, linking to other pages in the categoryu
00:48 < genete> it is working? I don't see any change...
00:48 < dooglus> you've probably seen it at wikipedia?
00:48 < genete> yes
00:48 < genete> I've did
00:48 < genete> intermediate or advanced?
00:52 < genete> Advanced
00:52 < genete> dooglus: good night! 
00:52 < genete> all: night!!!
00:52 < genete> Bye!
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00:53 < genete> Oops: dooglus: cool thing the yuv and mng things. Cheers!
00:53 < genete> bye!
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01:22 < dooglus> hey pabs3
01:23 < dooglus> I finally got around to taking a look at your .mng target
01:23 < pabs3> yo
01:23 < pabs3> ah, cool
01:23 < dooglus> there wasn't much wrong with it - you were just missing a 'filter' byte at the start of each scanline
01:24 < dooglus> I've had a bit of a tidy-up of the target code today - since our 3 users have gone to the effort of documenting what doesn't work, I thought it was the least I could do to try to fix it :)
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01:30 < pabs3> cool
01:31 < pabs3> so, the mng target is enabled by default now?
01:32 < CIA-33> synfig: dooglus * r980 /synfig-core/trunk/src/modules/mod_yuv420p/ (trgt_yuv.cpp trgt_yuv.h): Write header giving image height, width, and frame rate in .yuv output.
01:32 < pabs3> ahh, I see that it is
01:33 < dooglus> zes
01:33 < pabs3> good work!
01:33 < dooglus> 9can zou tell I just switch machines_0
01:33 < dooglus> keyboard's in czech...
01:33 < pabs3> heheh
01:34 < dooglus> .gif output still sucks, of course
01:34 < dooglus> maybe we should default to imagemagick for .gif output
01:34 < dooglus> that probably does a better job
01:35 < pabs3> wow, lots of activity in recentchanges
01:36 < pabs3> you mean for the 'auto' target?
01:36 < pabs3> or for the 'gif' one?
01:37 < dooglus> the targets are the module names
01:38 < dooglus> so pick 'gif' and you get the synfig gif code
01:38 < dooglus> I meant for 'auto'
01:38 < dooglus> you can currently select 'imagemagick' and a .gif filename and it will render to n single-frame gif files
01:38 < dooglus> I don't know if you can tell imagemagick to write an ani-gif
01:39 < dooglus> 'recentchanges'?  wossat?
01:39 < pabs3> http://wiki.synfig.com/Special:Recentchanges
01:39 < dooglus> I was playing with wiki categories
01:40 < dooglus> genete made a page about re-using exported valuenodes, and was wondering whether to put it in tutorials.
01:40 < dooglus> I thought maybe using categories would be more natural - you can put each page in several categories
01:40 < pabs3> sounds good to me
01:43 < dooglus> so categories for 'layers', 'dialogs', 'menu entries', etc.
01:49 < pabs3> hmm, 1820315 looks like a job for pxegeek or another artist
02:05 < dooglus> oh yes, I forgot about that.  it was genete's leaving present to me :)
02:07 < dooglus> I never even noticed there's an icon next to 'convert'
02:07 < dooglus> has that always been there?
02:07 < pabs3> I think so
02:08  * pabs3 needs to read up on convert
02:11 < dooglus> I overlooked it for a long time
02:12 < dooglus> the convert menu was full of scary lowercasewordsruntogether
02:13 < dooglus> make a gradient, then 'convert' it to 'Stripes' - that'll give you a pretty clear idea of what convert is all about
02:14 < dooglus> I think we could borrow connect ( http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.11/gtk-Stock-Items.html#GTK-STOCK-CONNECT:CAPS ) and disconnect icons from Gtk's stock pool
02:28 < pabs3> sounds good
02:29 < pabs3> stripes! interesting
02:30 < dooglus> there's lots of convert-related goodness in synfig these days
02:30 < dooglus> genete keeps thinking up new ones :)
02:32 < pabs3> how much of it is from the voria days? 
02:33 < dooglus> maybe 50% by number, and 30% if you count the ones that were working
02:34 < dooglus> I asked darco about it - he said they never used them much
02:35 < pabs3> coolness
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02:47 < CIA-33> synfig: dooglus * r981 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/iconcontroler.cpp: Add stock icons for 'connect' and 'disconnect'.
02:47 < CIA-33> synfig: dooglus * r982 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/iconcontroler.cpp: Sorted alphabetically.
02:47 < CIA-33> synfig: dooglus * r983 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/iconcontroler.cpp: Removed duplicate code for 'remove's icon.
02:51 < KiBi> o<
02:59 < pxegeek> >o
03:05 < pabs3> <pabs3> hmm, 1820315 looks like a job for pxegeek or another artist
03:07 < pxegeek> Hmmm...  What should a rename icon look like?  "F2"?
03:07 < pxegeek> Or is that just a windowsism?
03:07 < pabs3> heh
03:08 < pabs3> works under nautilus on linux too
03:09 < dooglus> pxegeek: maybe it looks like find-and-replace, without the 'find'?
03:09 < dooglus> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.11/gtk-Stock-Items.html#GTK-STOCK-FIND-AND-REPLACE:CAPS
03:10 < pxegeek> That would be easy
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03:17 < dooglus> pxegeek: I just checked the icons we have vs. the icons the code mentions and we're missing 5:
03:17 < dooglus> grid_disable grid_enable grid_snap_disable grid_snap_enable rename_icon
03:18 < dooglus> I don't know where the grid icons would be - probably in the menu I guess
03:20 < dooglus> pxegeek: seems they're not used anywhere, just referenced...
03:20 < pxegeek> There's 5 on the >View menu
03:20 < pxegeek> Toggle blah blah blah
03:21 < dooglus> pxegeek: oh, and I fixed the points raised in your 'render options' page, so it would be good if you could update the test results if you get some time
03:21 < pxegeek> I'm compiling 983 as we type
03:22 < dooglus> wow, you'll be up to date!
03:22 < dooglus> I won't be committing anything else today
03:22 < dooglus> how would you combine a lot of .gif images into a single animated gif?
03:22 < dooglus> can ffmpeg or mencoder or imagemagick do it?
03:23 < pxegeek> I never got around to testing the Text layer with bmp....
03:23 < pxegeek> You can just select gif as the target and it takes care of it.
03:24 < dooglus> in synfig?
03:24 < dooglus> that uses old voria code, and doesn't work very well in my experience.  lots of noise on the rendered image
03:24 < dooglus> and it's very slow to render too - the code takes a long time trying to allocate colors to the limited gif palette
03:24 < pxegeek> Works fine under WIndows!
03:24 < pxegeek> Can't argue with the time....
03:25 < dooglus> try it with a high-color animation - like using an animated gradient or something
03:25 < pxegeek> Did you see my boom.gif?
03:25 < dooglus> yes
03:25 < dooglus> nice
03:25 < dooglus> but probably less than 256 colors in total, right?
03:28 < dooglus> pxegeek: I just noticed that the default render target for .gif is somehow imagemagick now...
03:29 < dooglus> I sorted the module list into alphabetical order - maybe that changed things.  oops!
03:29 < dooglus> pxegeek: the imagemagick target will render separate .gif images, not an animated gif
03:34 < pxegeek> dooglus - "but probably less than 256 colors in total, right?" - of course.
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03:46 < dooglus> pxegeek: they do quickly mount up when you use gradients
03:46 < dooglus> pxegeek: I was wrong about not committing - I've put the module list back to the old order so the default targets don't change.
03:46 < pxegeek> :)
03:47 < dooglus> pxegeek: but it's not a code change - you can just copy the new synfig-core/trunk/src/modules/synfig_modules.cfg.in to wherever synfig on windows reads it from
03:47 < CIA-33> synfig: dooglus * r984 /synfig-core/trunk/src/modules/synfig_modules.cfg.in: 
03:47 < CIA-33> synfig: Reverted the sort I did earlier. The order of the modules determines the
03:47 < CIA-33> synfig: default target for each extension. Whichever comes last for each extension is
03:47 < CIA-33> synfig: the default, so having 'mod_imagemagick' after 'mod_gif' means that Imagemagick
03:47 < CIA-33> synfig: takes over GIF rendering, and it doesn't create animated GIFs.
03:48 < pxegeek> How big is the rename_icon going to be in pixels?
03:49 < pxegeek> I just knocked one up that looks good at 200x200, but very pale washed out at 20x20.
04:23 < pxegeek> Ladles and Jellyspoons, allow me to present - 
04:24 < pxegeek> http://home.comcast.net/~pxegeek/synfig/rename_icon.png 
04:24 < pxegeek> http://home.comcast.net/~pxegeek/synfig/rename_icon.sif
04:25 < pxegeek> Rebecca says "hi"
04:32 < pabs3> committed, thanx pxegeek 
04:32  * pabs3 waves to rabecca
04:33 < pabs3> woops, typo, sorry Rebecca
04:34  * KiBi waves to Rebecca too.
04:47 < CIA-33> synfig: pabs * r985 /synfig-studio/trunk/images/ (Makefile.am rename_icon.sif): Partially fix 1820315: add a rename_icon.sif by PXEGeek
04:50 < pabs3> hmm, I think we need an svn hook to close bugs automatically
05:33 < pxegeek> Ah!  Peace at last.  The kids have gone to bed, and my wife is already asleep!
05:47 < pabs3> :)
06:17 < CIA-33> synfig: pabs * r986 /synfig-core/trunk/README: Add MNG to the README now that it works
07:09 < pxegeek> I'm guessing something needs to change in the windows build - mng still unrecognized here.  
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07:09 < genete> Hi!
07:09 < genete> http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/anim_basics/
07:09 < genete> bye!
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07:09 < pabs3> pxegeek: I think you would need to compile and install libmng first
07:10 < pxegeek> I just compiled and installed 983 - I guess I'm missing libmng.
07:22 < pxegeek> Nope. libmng installed, but synfig doesn't acknowledge it.  Maybe I need to install the devel package before compilation?
07:23 < pabs3> definitely
07:25 < pxegeek> Another day then.  :)
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16:36 < genete> hi!
16:38 < genete> dooglus: have you readed my comments on http://wiki.synfig.com/Talk:Render_options ?
16:39 < genete> You can create animated gif using 'convert' from imagemagick package.
16:39 < dooglus> genete: I replied
16:39 < dooglus> genete: I don't think ImageMagick 6.2 can optimize .gif animations
16:39 < dooglus> genete: so the files are too bug
16:39 < dooglus> big
16:40 < genete> My avatar is made on that way...
16:41 < dooglus> genete: if you open a .gif animation in the gimp and look at the layers dialog, it shows you what each frame really contains
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16:41 < genete> I've done yet, and standard animated gif from synfig are ugly... they don'r erase properly the animated regions.
16:43 < genete> dooglus: I don't understand your comment on hte wiki: but it seems to be talking about a different ImageMagick than the one I'm using
16:47 < dooglus> genete: 6.2 vs 6.3?
16:48 < dooglus> genete: the built in code optimizes badly, leaving marks, yes.
16:48 < dooglus> genete: the im 6.2 code doesn't optimize at all, leaving huge .gif files
16:50 < genete> I have 6.2 and cannot use -layers option 
16:50 < genete> It is strange 
16:51 < genete> I've notice big changes on the IM page since I visit it last time. Maybe the change of version introduced some new things.
16:55 < dooglus> genete: 6.3 is quite old I think
16:56 < dooglus> suse 10.2 and 10.3 both had it
16:56 < genete> for imagemagick ?
16:56 < dooglus> yes
16:59 < genete> but the main IM download page says that the last version is that: http://www.imagemagick.org/script/binary-releases.php#unix
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17:01 < dooglus> yes
17:01 < dooglus> for some reason, debian hasn't updated imagemagick for over a year
17:01 < dooglus> I'm not sure why
17:01 < genete> They're very careful?
17:01 < dooglus> if I:
17:01 < dooglus> convert -deconstruct 1-6.0???.gif 1-6.gif
17:01 < genete> like me?
17:02 < dooglus> then I get a partially optimized gif, but all the frames have a single rectangle containing the changes.  that can be a big waste
17:02 < dooglus> they're careful what goes into their stable release, but they're not even updating it in unstable
17:02 < dooglus> so it doesn't get into ubuntu either
17:03 < genete> forget it for the moment. 
17:04 < genete> I only wanted to point out you that 'convert' also compile gifs
17:04 < genete> that's all.
17:04 < genete> you can come back on it later when it were properly packaged to debian
17:05 < genete> dooglus: You've made a lot of changes in the wiki!
17:06 < genete> And I've seen how quick have been fixed the missing rename_icon.png file. That was a good team work! :)
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17:09 < dooglus> yes!
17:11 < genete> dooglus: delete an exported paste canvas layer allows keep the exported canvas. But if you accidentally delete the pasted canvas layer it cannot be undone... ?
17:13 < genete> I don't know what I've done but I cannot repeat it again :( forget last question...
17:16 < dooglus> genete: my changes in the wiki were playing with 'category'
17:16 < dooglus> I put all the tutorials in a category, and all the 'dialog' pages
17:16 < dooglus> did you look at it?
17:16 < genete> yes
17:17 < genete> but did you do it manually or automatically?
17:17 < genete> once you put the categories in the pages are they added automatically to the main category page?
17:22 < dooglus> yes
17:22 < dooglus> I had to add a line to each dialog page
17:23 < dooglus> and make a one-line page for the category, saying what it is fo
17:23 < dooglus> r
17:23 < dooglus> but that is all
17:23 < dooglus> there can be sub-categories as well, but I didn't try those
17:23 < genete> Are you going to define the categories or would let the wiki users (like me) do a mess with them?
17:24 < dooglus> like a layers category, with 'distortions' as a sub
17:24 < dooglus> I can leave it to you if you like
17:24 < dooglus> I have lots of other things I can be doing instead
17:25 < genete> I guess so but a wrong category would be worst later than a good one
17:25 < genete> I would like to be careful with that
17:25 < dooglus> I think it's quite easy to find all the pages with a bad category and take it out
17:25 < dooglus> so don't worry
17:26 < genete> ah! ok.
17:26 < dooglus> I added all the dialogs to the dialog category, even some that didn't have pages yet
17:26 < dooglus> for those, I made a blank article and added them to the 'blank pages' category as well
17:26 < genete> waht are you working on now?
17:26 < dooglus> I'm building imagemagick 6.3.6 to try it
17:27 < dooglus> if it does a good job of making .gif animations, I'll see if I can get it packaged for debian/ubuntu
17:28 < genete> would be a good improvement.
17:29 < genete> Did you like "today's bug from genete"?
17:29 < genete> ;-)
17:30 < genete> I'm building to the last svn now and when done I'll try to repeat a crashing bug for you bug list. 
17:31 < dooglus> which bug?
17:32 < genete> close the main canvas when editing an exported canvas but with no layer linked...
17:34 < dooglus> the one you told me to forget?
17:35 < genete> not
17:36 < genete> The other one I think I cleared the undo stack accidentally.
17:42 < dooglus> genete: where did you report it?
17:43 < genete> I'm reproducing it not reported yet http://www.darthfurby.com/genete/synfig/coolexport2.sifz 
17:43 < genete> load the file and do following
17:43 < genete> 1) the file have some exported values and an exported canvas.
17:43 < genete> 2) Create a new Paste Canvas Layer
17:44 < genete> 3) Select the canvas parameter and load the 'plant' canvas (it is called Synfig Animation 3 or somethign like that)
17:45 < genete> 4) once done just export the origin of the paste canvas layer. Give it the name you want
17:45 < genete> 5) Now close the file and tell it that you don't want to save it. Then it crashes.
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17:59 < genete> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1820750&group_id=144022&atid=757416
18:00 < dooglus> it crashed before I could do step 5
18:00 < genete> Mmm I can do step 5.... let me try again
18:02 < genete> I can live with the step 5) done but it crashes although you save the file...
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18:03 < genete> If I reopen the saved file then it doesn't crash again...
18:04 < genete> the main error message is this:
18:04 < genete> *** glibc detected *** synfigstudio: corrupted double-linked list: 0x08ae27e0 ***
18:04 < genete> the rest is a backtrace and finally a core dump
18:04  * genete have another bug...
18:04 < genete> has*
18:05 < genete> Rename a exported value crash.
18:05 < genete> an*
18:05 < genete> Is it not an old one?
18:06 < dooglus> yes, it is, but I never found how to make it repeatable
18:06 < dooglus> can you?
18:08 < genete> You can do it with any file. Just right click and select the Rename ValueNode menu...
18:09 < dooglus> I've certainly been able to rename valuenodes before
18:09 < genete> me too but I have no idea why now I cannot.
18:09 < dooglus> does it matter which dialog you use?
18:09 < genete> ?
18:09 < dooglus> params / children
18:09 < genete> ah!
18:10 < genete> child
18:10 < genete> in params it doesn't fail
18:11 < genete> glibmm-ERROR **: 
18:11 < genete> unhandled exception (type std::exception) in signal handler:
18:11 < genete> what: ValueNode in ValueNodeList: juan
18:11 < genete> aborting...
18:11 < genete> Cancelado (core dumped)
18:11 < genete> 'juan' is the exported ValueNode name I wanted to change
18:12 < dooglus> so params never fails, children always fails?
18:12 < dooglus> I thought it was more messy than that
18:12 < genete> I have never make params rename fails...
18:12 < dooglus> ok
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18:28 < dooglus> genete: do you know if imagemagick can make an animated gif from a series of images read from stdin?
18:30 < genete> I don't now if form stdin but for sure form the command line. I guess the answer would be yes.
18:35 < dooglus> I tried: cat x.????.gif | convert -layers optimize-transparency - x-opt.gif
18:35 < dooglus> but the result only had one frame
18:36 < genete> but to create an animated gif you should add more params not?
18:37 < dooglus> no, I don't think so
18:37 < dooglus> convert x.????.png x-opt.gif
18:37 < dooglus> that works
18:38 < dooglus> rendering to .png and converting to animated gif works much better than rendering to .gif and converting
18:38 < dooglus> because rendering to .gif automatically messes up the colors in different ways for each frame, and then the optimizer thinks they're different colors, when it shouldn't
18:39 < dooglus> maybe we can use libMagic instead of the command-line tools
18:39 < genete> that's wat I wanted to say to you: create a png serie and convert to animated gif
18:42 < dooglus> ok
18:42 < dooglus> there's http://www.imagemagick.org/Magick++/ for C++ programs to use
18:43 < dooglus> did you see the conversation pabs3 and I were having about ubuntu damaging hard disk drives?
18:44 < genete> I always liked so much IM package. Lot of people, specially windows users try to do bizarre image manipulations with huge programs when they have IM package...
18:44 < genete> I've readed something but not understand it so much.
18:44 < dooglus> apparently a hard drive can lift the heads off the disk about a million times before it fails
18:45 < dooglus> Windows does it once, when you shut down
18:45 < dooglus> but ubuntu sometimes does it every 5 seconds
18:45 < dooglus> at that rate it will use up the 1 million lifts in 57 days
18:46 < genete> but only ubuntu? or it is a kernel issue?
18:47 < dooglus> it's not clear
18:47 < dooglus> sudo apt-get install smartmontools
18:47 < dooglus> then
18:47 < dooglus> sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda -d ata | grep '193 Load_Cycle'
18:47 < dooglus> to see how many 'lifts' your hdd has done so far
18:48 < genete> doesn't it depends on what file system have you got? ext2 or ext3 (journal)?
18:49 < dooglus> maybe
18:49 < dooglus> if ext3 is writing the journal every 5 seconds, that might be causing the heads to unpark
18:50 < genete> who knows what is windows doing internally!!!. Almost we know what linus does!!!
18:50 < genete> linux*
18:51 < dooglus> a ubuntu developer wrote than ubuntu isn't changing the power management settings set up by the BIOS
18:51 < dooglus> so if the BIOS is set to park the heads over and over, ubuntu will let it
18:51 < dooglus> whereas it appears that Windows doesn't
18:52 < genete> So linux is safest on a earthquake! :D
19:13 < genete> I've created a duplicated wiki page! http://wiki.synfig.com/Navigator_Dialog was a missing one from your missing pages list
19:13 < genete> but this one existed yet! : http://wiki.synfig.com/Navigator
19:13 < genete> Grrrrrrrr 
19:15  * genete is away: Estoy ocupado
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19:28 < dooglus> http://www.google.com/views?q=linux+view:timeline :)
19:29 < dooglus> linux is nearly 100 years old - who knew?
20:16 < rore_> ahah, you found this too :) 
20:17 < rore_> (I stumbled on that page one day, and it made me laugth a lot)
20:20 < rore_> Synfig version number still begin by "0", so synfig can't be 100 years old. So sad 
20:39 -!- rore_ is now known as rore
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23:48 < genete> Hi!
23:49 < genete> dooglus: thanks for fixing the Navigator dialog page.
--- Log closed Sat Oct 27 00:00:54 2007