--- Log opened Wed Jan 30 00:00:14 2008
--- Day changed Wed Jan 30 2008
00:00 < dooglus> ulrik: you don't see them?
00:00 < ulrik> dooglus: no, where should they be?
00:02 < dooglus> ulrik: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/checkboxes.png
00:02 < CIA-39> synfig: dooglus * r1524 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/app.cpp: Change the default 'toggle onion skin' keyboard shortcut from control-o (which is the stock binding for 'open') to control-k.
00:02 < CIA-39> synfig: dooglus * r1525 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/app.cpp: OK, let's use alt-o (o is for onion) instead of control-k to toggle onion skin.
00:02 < dooglus> ulrik: just to the left of 'toggle onion skin'
00:03 < dooglus> ulrik: what do you see in the view menu for onion skin?  "show onion skin" or "toggle onion skin"?
00:04 < ulrik> dooglus: you're right, but in my synfig there is no boxes, I see show onion skin
00:05 < ulrik> there is just the "mark" but no boxes,
00:05 < genete> same than ulrik here
00:05 < genete> it comes form the gtk theme you have installed
00:05 < ulrik> hehe, I looked everywhere for the boxes, and didn't see the change there....sorry
00:06 < dooglus> the marks should show whether those 5 toggles are on or off
00:06 < ulrik> gtk...ok, i'll check to see what version i have
00:06 < dooglus> ulrik: it's about what theme you're using - you can switch themes somehow
00:06 < ulrik> dooglus: i thought they should appear in the meta data window
00:07 < ulrik> ok
00:08 < ulrik> gtk2 2.12.4_0+x11
00:09 < ulrik> I guess the "x11" is the variant
00:09 < dooglus> ulrik: want me to take a look on VNC?
00:09 < ulrik> sure
00:09 < dooglus> 89.176.28.156 port 55505
00:19 < factor> out
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00:23 < genete> night
00:23 -!- genete [n=Genete@84.122.45.237.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["Abandonando"]
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01:03 < pabs3> AkhIL: do you know python? papagayo definitely needs a fork - there are tons of discontinued modifications in the forums, first task would be to replace the _lm thing
01:04 < pabs3> hmm, I think I need to get someone to be the new News/Draft maintainer, perhaps genete
01:09 < ulrik> dooglus:  :) 
01:09 < dooglus> ?
01:09 < dooglus> oh, me disconnecting myself?
01:09 < ulrik> I mean: thank you, you're a very nice person!!
01:09 < dooglus> no worries.
01:10 < dooglus> it was strange how none of the themes changed the menu though
01:10 < ulrik> yes, that was mystic
01:10 < ulrik> maybe after rebooting the computer?...no
01:13 < dooglus> maybe the 'engine' didn't install properly, so all you were seeing was different colors
01:15 < ulrik> dooglus: what was the name of the "engine"?
01:16 < ulrik> mpfr?
01:29 < dooglus> "gtk2-clearlooks" was the package name
01:29 < ulrik> ok
01:49 < ulrik> night to you all!
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02:24 < javaJake> Hey
02:24 < javaJake> I'm trying to compile synfig, and I don't want to install ETL
02:24 < javaJake> I've got it compiled, and I want synfig to access it in the directory I have it compiled in
02:24 < pabs3> hmm
02:25 < javaJake> My latest attempt was: LIBS="-l/home/jacob/Software/Synfig/svn/ETL/etl/ETL/"  ./configure
02:25 < javaJake> Which failed miserably. :P
02:25 < pabs3> what I do is install it in ~/opt and set a few environment variables to make it work
02:25 < javaJake> What are those variables?
02:26 < pabs3> PATH=$HOME/opt/bin/
02:26 < javaJake> Ah, OK
02:26 < pabs3> PKG_CONFIG_PATH=$HOME/opt/lib/pkgconfig/
02:27 < pabs3> that does it for me, and use ./configure --prefix=$HOME/opt
02:29 < javaJake> OK, that applies to ETL as well?
02:32 < AkhIL> yes. you should compile and install ETL somewhere first
02:32 < javaJake> OK
02:32 < AkhIL> then export PKG_CONFIG_PATH and PATH to your install dir
02:32 < javaJake> I've set up PATH and PKG_CONFIG_PATH in my environment, will run that ./configure and make install command on ETL first
02:32 < AkhIL> export PKG_CONFIG_PATH="$PKG_CONFIG_PATH:$OPT/$PREFIX/lib/pkgconfig"
02:32 < AkhIL> export PATH="$PATH:$OPT/$PREFIX/bin"
02:32 < AkhIL> in my case
02:34 < javaJake> ETL installed just fine... synfig configuring...
02:35 < javaJake> ETL was found, yay! :)
02:35  * pabs3 adds some bits to the wiki page
02:35 < javaJake> Oh, right, good idea!
02:35 < javaJake> I'll take a look once you're done
02:35  * javaJake leans over pabs3's shoulder
02:35 < javaJake> ;)
02:36 < javaJake> this --prefix thing is good to know about, though. I'll definitely be using that in future configurations
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02:42 < pabs3> bah, that build instructions page needs a bit of reworking, might take a bit of time
02:42 < javaJake> OK
02:42 < javaJake> Erm, any caveats I should know about then?
02:44 < AkhIL> in which units xres and yres in sif files is measured?
02:44 < AkhIL> I'm trying to make gimp->synfig convertor
02:47 < pabs3> javaJake: your gnome/etc menu won't have synfig in it unless you add it manually
02:49 < javaJake> OK
02:49 < javaJake> That I don't care about
02:51 < pabs3> ok, all done
02:55 < factor> what is the diff between synfig and synfig studio
02:56 < pabs3> synfig = command-line wrapper around libsynfig
02:56 < pabs3> libsynfig = rendering engine
02:56 < pabs3> synfigstudio = gui for libsynfig and libsynfigapp 
02:57 < pabs3> libsynfigapp = an api thing for the gui
02:57 < factor> ahh
02:57 < pabs3> libsynfig also has all the layer types, output formats and so on
02:57 < factor> so when I download synfig studios it is not all of it
02:58 < pabs3> nope
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03:05 < javaJake> pabs3: I like the changes. :)
03:05 < pabs3> thanks :)
03:05 < factor> lo pxgeek
03:07  * javaJake sets up .bashrc to ask him if he wants opt/ added in
03:09 < pxegeek> hiya
03:10 < AkhIL> greetings
03:15 < javaJake> pabs3: http://synfig.org/index.php?title=Build_Instructions&diff=5560&oldid=5558 <- made some changes of my own
03:15 < javaJake> You can ignore Line 64, don't know why it's showing that as changed. Maybe I added a space or something by accident.
03:17 < factor> brb getting some food while synfig compiles
03:18  * pxegeek rebooting - brb
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03:44 < javaJake> Hmm... guess Synfig doesn't have text support yet
03:45 < AkhIL> javaJake: draw by hand 8)
03:47 < javaJake> Ah, nvm
03:47 < javaJake> Synfigstudio doesn't understand Inkscape's font stuff
03:47 < javaJake> I had to save as a "Plain SVG" which means I lose some font properties
03:48 < AkhIL> synfig can open svg?
03:48 < pabs3> svg? synfig doesn't do svg
03:49 < pabs3> AkhIL: closest is the svg2synfig xslt script on the wiki
03:49 < pabs3> javaJake: synfig has a text layer
03:49 < javaJake> pabs3: it imports it
03:49 < javaJake> pabs3: right click in your document, goto File -> Import
03:50 < pabs3> javaJake: ah, that would be through imagemagick converting svn to png
03:50 < javaJake> Ohh
03:50 < javaJake> Yea, it didn't like Inkscape's custom fonts, I guess.
04:08 < javaJake> Well, thanks for the help, I'll be talking to you guys later.
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04:19 < AkhIL> hmm... radial blur makes too much artifacts 8(
04:30 < AkhIL> hey developers. are you here?
04:43  * pxegeek does impressions of tumbleweeds
04:46 < AkhIL> please look this sif http://akhil.nightmail.ru/tmp/halo_test.sifz
04:47  * factor hears clint eastwood whistle.
04:52 < AkhIL> I just need to know can you fix this artifacts or I'll have to search another way to make hallo effect
04:56 < pxegeek> and in the distance, a melancholy harmonica plays
04:56 < pxegeek> AkhIL - does it render OK?
04:58 < AkhIL> pxegeek: no. wait a minute I'll share rendered image
04:58 < pxegeek> ugh, no, it doesn't, does it...
05:01 < AkhIL> http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4200/halotestbadpv5.png
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05:06 < Yoyobuae> pxegeek: if you haven't seend it, 3D on synfig =D : http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/3Daxis.avi
05:07 < pxegeek> Yoyobuae - I saw the GIF version - neat stuff!
05:07 < Yoyobuae> i didn't remember if you did =)
05:07 < factor> cool
05:07 < Yoyobuae> i'm making a wiki explaining the methods
05:08 < AkhIL> oh! realy 3d!
05:08 < pxegeek> O RLY?
05:08 < pxegeek> AkhIL - it looks a lot better if you increase the size of the radial blur
05:09 < pabs3> Yoyobuae: lets see you make a 3D version of genete's cannonball animation!
05:09 < pxegeek> You may have to tweak the other settings to get the striations back
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05:10 < Yoyobuae> pabs3: want me too add perspective too (nearer objects look bigger? XD
05:10 < AkhIL> pxegeek:  thanks
05:10 < pabs3> yes please ;)
05:10 < Yoyobuae> pabs4: nah j/k
05:11 < Yoyobuae> its too much work with the current method
05:11 < pxegeek> pabs4 = ++ pabs3
05:11 < pxegeek> ;
05:11 < Yoyobuae> but i think it can be simplified a lot with a few additions to  synfig
05:11 < Yoyobuae> yay, preincrement =)
05:13 < Yoyobuae> oh, i didnt notice the "pabs4" typo XD
05:14 < pabs3> :)
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05:54 < AkhIL> http://akhil.nightmail.ru/tmp/halo_test.ogg - magical halo 
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06:11 < Yoyobuae> AkhIL: wow, amazing.  How many radial blurs did you use?
06:12 < AkhIL> one 
06:12 < Yoyobuae> oh, then how did you do the multiple rays?
06:13 < AkhIL> wait a minute. I'll share new sifz
06:13 < Yoyobuae> good =)
06:14 < AkhIL> http://akhil.nightmail.ru/tmp/halo_test.new.sifz
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06:24 < Yoyobuae> sweet =).  noise+radial blur
06:24 < Yoyobuae> good combo =)
06:25 < pxegeek> AkhIL - I can just picture that as part of your animation!
06:25 < AkhIL> yes. This is halo for cheeeesse 8)
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06:33 < pabs3> hmm, what language is Getting_Started.bp?
06:35 < pabs3> ahh, pt_BR
06:35  * pabs3 renames
06:37 < pxegeek> One last one from me before the end of the month
06:38 < pxegeek> http://home.comcast.net/~pxegeek/synfig/TShirt4.gif
06:38 < pabs3> gah, I gotta get mine in too
06:38 < pabs3> hah!
06:39 < pxegeek> :)
06:39 < pxegeek> How's your coming along?
06:43 < pabs3> done (& lame), just need to blog it and post to the forum
06:43 < pabs3> ok, back to the wired connection for me
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06:59 < Zelgadis> why renaming Getting_Started.bp to Getting_Started.pt_BR?
06:59 < Zelgadis> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Internationalization_extensions
07:01 < Zelgadis> pabs3: I think better to use two-letter code for translated page according to http://www.symbian.com/developer/techlib/v9.1docs/doc_source/N10356/Installing-ref/PKG_format/PKG_languages_table.html
08:16 < factor> to compile I am getting an error for searching for the ETL lib I guess
08:16 < factor> compile synfigstudio
08:17 < factor> but it is installed and is the version it lists
08:18 < factor> Unable to set up dependent libraries (synfig >= 0.61.07, ETL >= 0.04.10)
08:18 < factor> just did CMMI
08:18 < factor> nothing special
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08:26 < Yoyobuae> factor: once i got that same exact error while building synfig studio. it was because synfig-core was not installed.
08:27 < factor> synfig-core or synfig
08:27 < factor> I did a CMMI on synfig
08:27 < Yoyobuae> but is the command line synfig installed?
08:28 < factor> what is the command line option
08:30 < Yoyobuae> im not sure what you mean XD
08:30 < Yoyobuae> there should be a binary program named "synfig"
08:30 < Yoyobuae> synfig studio uses it to generate its icons from SIF files
08:31 < Yoyobuae> it won't build if you dont have it
08:32 < Yoyobuae> CMMI = configure/make/make install?
08:32 < factor> yes
08:33 < factor> sorry
08:34 < factor> I have a precompiled binary already installed
08:34 < factor> debian package
08:35 < Yoyobuae> maybe is older version?
08:36 < factor> nope same
08:36 < factor> just compiling a source version of it so If I wanted to modify anything 
08:37 < Yoyobuae> dunno what's going then XD
08:37 < factor> ok
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08:51 < factor> I want to change the top row icons, I have no idea what the top right two are
08:52 < factor> :P
08:53 < pabs3> Zelgadis: that doesn't look like any standard I've ever heard of
08:56 < Zelgadis> pabs3: well, it's very often for domain name to end on two-letter language code
08:57 < pabs3> you mean country code, and the brasil one is .br AFAICT
08:58 < pabs3> languages are <language>_<COUNTRY> pt_BR = Portugese from Brazil
08:59 < pabs3> perhaps I'm missing something
08:59 < Zelgadis> pabs3: oh... maybe then better just "pt"
08:59 < Zelgadis> ?
09:01 < Yoyobuae> factor: the top row icons are from GTK iirc
09:02 < Zelgadis> pabs3: "The differences between European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese are comparable to those one might find when comparing British and American English." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Portuguese
09:03 < pabs3> right, en_GB vs en_US
09:03 < factor> just making a funny
09:03 < factor> the tut section on synfig has grown
09:04 < factor> nice stuff
09:04 < factor> been a while since I checked
09:04 < Zelgadis> I agree what http://www.symbian.com/developer/techlib/v9.1docs/doc_source/N10356/Installing-ref/PKG_format/PKG_languages_table.html doesn't looks like standart.
09:04 < Zelgadis> Maybe better use this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-1_codes
09:07 < pabs3> ya, that just lists pt for portugese, nothing about brasil
09:12 < Yoyobuae> night everyone =)
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09:13 < factor> yeah me too guess I should have just messed with synfig itself will have to wait till tomorrow
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11:33 < pabs3> mwiriadi: svn trunks should build & work with gcc-4.3 now
11:34 < mwiriadi> pabs3, Ok cool thanks for that
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12:25 < mwiriadi> pabs3, does that mean a release is imminent?
12:25 < pabs3> um, I don't think so
12:26 < pabs3> dooglus: any thoughts on a release?
12:26 < mwiriadi> Otherwise I'll have to grab a lot of the patches since F-9 will use gcc4.3
12:27 < mwiriadi> Up to you guys personally I'm happy to wait since I can release it after the release of F-9
12:27 < pabs3> when will the F-9 release be?
12:28 < mwiriadi> April/May
12:28 < mwiriadi> more than likely May
12:28 < pabs3> is there an earlier freeze date?
12:29 < mwiriadi> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule
12:29 < pabs3> synfig seems to be released every 5-6 months for the past few releases
12:29 < pabs3> that would bring us to ~ march
12:30 < mwiriadi> Well it should be fine then
12:30 < mwiriadi> Just
12:31 < pabs3> cool. perhaps mid-end of Feb would work
12:31  * pabs3 bbiab
12:31 < mwiriadi> Yep if it's ready no worries
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13:11 < AkhIL> I got bug in straightonto compositing mode
13:12 < AkhIL> please check this file http://akhil.nightmail.ru/tmp/test.tar.gz
13:12 < AkhIL> this bug appears only with bitmap layers
13:27 < dooglus> pabs3: I think we shouldn't release until the changes for g++ 4.3 have been tested a little.  genete had something strange yesterday (in his video tut, trying and failing to manipulate the top middle vertex of his heart)
13:27 < dooglus> pabs3: that could be related to the problem with the bline tool not drawing both tangents, and if so should be a simple fix
13:27 < pabs3> sounds sensible
13:27 < dooglus> pabs3: I'll stop making new changes though, with a view to making a new release soon-ish
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13:28 < dooglus> AkhIL: how did you stop the artifacts on your radial blur?
13:32 < AkhIL> dooglus: by encresing blur radius and using circle as mask for rays
13:33 < dooglus> AkhIL: ok, thanks.  I thought I had already fixed that bug, but this seems to be a different one
13:33 < dooglus> AkhIL: notice that the square artifacts aren't tile-sized, but much smaller
13:34 < AkhIL> http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6636/gimp2synfig001ta1.jpg - first results of my gimp->synfig exporter
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13:34 < dooglus> AkhIL: svn r843 was the fix - bug 1807709
13:34 < AkhIL> dooglus: thanks
13:35 < dooglus> AkhIL: the fix for the old bug - not your new discovery...
13:36 < dooglus> The checkin comment says: Compare http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/radial-blur-without-fix.png and http://dooglus.rincevent.net/synfig/radial-blur-with-fix.png
13:36 < dooglus> tile-sized artifacts, indeed
13:37 < AkhIL> nice!
13:38 < dooglus> but insufficient, it seems
13:40 < pabs3> AkhIL: how are you doing the gimp -> synfig conversion?
13:41 < AkhIL> pabs3: i'm writing plugin for gimp to export every layer as individual png and combine it back in sif file
13:41 < pabs3> ah, I see
13:42 < AkhIL> and it all to split my mouse 8)
13:45  * AkhIL n8 zzZ
13:46 < dooglus> AkhIL: thanks for the new bugs :)  night
13:49 < dooglus> the bitmap one is strange
13:49 < dooglus> straight blend, amount=1 on a bitmap layer doesn't obscure the layers under at all
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14:13 < dooglus> clone()ing a bitmap sets its amount to 0?  that seems to be causing the bitmap bug
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14:39 < factor> back later
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14:55 < dooglus> 1 done, 1 to go, of AkhIL's 2 new bugs
14:58 < pabs3> :D
14:59 < dooglus> at least the previous radial-blur fix did make it better, even for this new example:
14:59 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/halo_test_0.61.06.png http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/halo_test_r1526.png
15:01 < dooglus> those 2 images really capture the amazing evolution in the GUI's look in the last year :)
15:02 < CIA-39> synfig: dooglus * r1526 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/ (target_scanline.cpp target_tile.cpp): 
15:02 < CIA-39> synfig: AkhIL mentioned on IRC that bitmaps weren't working with 'straight onto'
15:02 < CIA-39> synfig: blending. It turned out that the clone-and-encapsulate we do to get straight
15:02 < CIA-39> synfig: blending to work was failing because clone() needs to know the path to the file
15:02 < CIA-39> synfig: that the canvas is stored in to calculate the relative path to the image file,
15:02 < CIA-39> synfig: and the optimized copy of the canvas tree didn't have that information. Now it
15:02 < CIA-39> synfig: does.
15:05 < pabs3> :)
15:08 < dooglus> these radial blur artifacts are weird
15:09 < dooglus> the artifacts seem to be about 53.6 pixels square
15:09 < dooglus> independant of zoom level
15:09 < dooglus> independant of whether tile or scanline rendering is used
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16:29 < dojo> hi
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16:37 < pxegeek> dooglus - it seems to me that the radial blur tile size is proportional to the size parameter of the blur.
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16:38 < pxegeek> increasing it from about .4 to 1.4 made it bigger than the canvas
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18:44 < dooglus> pxegeek: you're exactly right
18:45 < dooglus> pxegeek: 1.0 should be the maximum allowed I think, and will get rid of the problem
18:46 < dooglus> oh, well, not exactly right - I don't think it's a linear relationship.  it's proportional to 1/(1-size) or something - as size tends to 1, block size gets very big
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19:35 < genete> hi 
19:43 < genete> dooglus: right context menu of Bline tool is not traslated for vertices (yes for tangents)
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20:52 < dooglus> genete: hi
20:52 < genete> hi
20:52 < dooglus> genete: I'll look.  what's the text?
20:53 < genete> BLoop Line && DElete Vertex
20:53 < dooglus> "loop bline", "delete vertex", "unloop bline"?
20:53 < dooglus> ok
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21:19 < dooglus> genete: look at your .po file
21:19 < dooglus> find the entries for the untranslated text
21:19 < dooglus> does it have 'fuzzy' written?
21:20 < dooglus> genete: I don't think anything with 'fuzzy' next to it is being used
21:20 < genete> I'll open it with kbabel that marks it as fuzzy
21:21 < dooglus> I see lots of fuzzy translations - where I've modified text strings and it's had to guess which spanish matches
21:21 < dooglus> sometimes it's wrong, like:
21:21 < dooglus> msgid "Merge Tangents of '%s'"
21:21 < dooglus> msgstr "Mezclar tangentes"
21:22 < dooglus> I added the '%s' to the string - that's replaced with the name of the valuenode having its tangents merged
21:22 < dooglus> so the translation should have a '%s' in it too
21:22 < genete> it is weird, I don't see any fuzzy one
21:23 < dooglus> ok, if you've fixed them you've fixed them
21:23 < dooglus> I've found I had to "rm stamp-po" then "make install" in the po dir
21:23 < dooglus> to get the changes used
21:23 < genete> ok i'll try that 
21:24 < genete> sudo make install better?
21:24 < dooglus> if you install somewhere you can't write to, then yes
21:25 < dooglus> my build script does: prefix=$(pwd)/install
21:25 < dooglus> then ./configure --prefix $prefix
21:25 < dooglus> so each source copy of synfig has its own install directory
21:25 < genete> but es.po has not changed...
21:26 < genete> I see no fuzzy there
21:27 < dooglus> can you go to the 'po' dir and type:
21:27 < genete> I believe that "loop bline" and "delete vertex" has not been marked for translation never. 
21:27 < dooglus> nc 89.176.28.156 55505 < es.po
21:27 < genete> I mean during the bline construction not using the normal tool
21:27 < genete> what does that?
21:27 < dooglus> it sends me a copy of it
21:27 < genete> ah
21:28 < dooglus> thanks
21:28 < genete> neat :)
21:28 < dooglus> did you 'make update-po' in the po dir?
21:28 < genete> no
21:28 < dooglus> ok, so do
21:28 < dooglus> that'll add new strings for translation
21:29 < genete> ok nice
21:29 < dooglus> genete: see http://synfig.org/Translation#Translating_synfig_.26_synfigstudio : "If you update to a new revision of the code, please run "make update-po" in the po/ directories before updating the translation. "
21:30 < dooglus> so now you see lots of fuzzy marks, right?
21:30 < genete> but i did not updated any new translation since my es.po commit
21:30 < dooglus> right
21:30 < dooglus> I changed lots of strings in the source
21:30 < genete> I think you marked them for translation
21:30 < dooglus> for the 'history' panel mostly
21:31 < dooglus> maybe pabs3 did
21:31 < dooglus> commit 2d7ec5dd1deeb59cbca95344b76265577c894da4
21:31 < dooglus> Author: pabs <pabs@1f10aa63-cdf2-0310-b900-c93c546f37ac>
21:31 < dooglus> Date:   Wed Jan 9 00:40:33 2008 +0000
21:31 < dooglus> Mark some more strings for translation
21:31 < genete> good
21:31 < dooglus> -	menu.items().push_back(Gtk::Menu_Helpers::MenuElem("Delete Vertex",
21:31 < dooglus> +	menu.items().push_back(Gtk::Menu_Helpers::MenuElem(_("Delete Vertex"),
21:31 < dooglus> yes, it was pabs3
21:31 < genete> ok let's transalate then
21:32 < genete> :)
21:32 < dooglus> I see 28 strings as 'fuzzy'
21:32 < dooglus> in studio
21:32 < factor> always a good thing(tm)
21:33 < genete> I was recently fighting with an animation of a fliying duck. it was a lateral view of the wing. Animate a lateral flip flap of a wing is the most difficult thing I've never done.
21:33 < dooglus> I've been struggling with the 'new' radial blur bug today
21:33 < dooglus> thought I'd found a reasonable fix, but it didn't work fully
21:33 < genete> I've seen it in the logs
21:34 < genete> (I see 34 fuzzy translations)
21:34 < factor> yeah i saw the gfx this morn
21:34 < genete> dooglus: I still get confused with the Origin parameter for hidden vertices.
21:35 < genete> It makes sense for vertices but it is weird for tangents.
21:35 < genete> tangents are not very intelligent
21:36 < dooglus> I don't know what you're refering to, sorry
21:36 < genete> they make a full turn when the shortest way is turn in opossite direction
21:36 < genete> let me show a example.
21:36 < dooglus> oh, I remember
21:36 < genete> :)
21:37 < dooglus> but yeah, an example would be good anyway
21:37 < genete> I've seen the tangents going from -2 DEG to 0 DEG the long way
21:43 < genete> dooglus: can I send you the sifz file like the es.po one?
21:43 -!- Yoyobuae [n=quete@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
21:43 < Yoyobuae> hi =)
21:43 < genete> hi Yoyobuae 
21:44 < Yoyobuae> trying the flip/flap animation i see =)
21:44 < genete> yes
21:44 < genete> not easy =)
21:45 < Yoyobuae> the problem lies in that you're trying to reproce a 3D motion on a 2D canvas 
21:46 < Yoyobuae> that's one of the reasons i made 3Daxis.sifz
21:46 < genete> Mmmm but I don't want a mechanical wing. 
21:46 < genete> I want something flexible...
21:47 < Yoyobuae> the wing, the feathers can be flexible. but bones are never flexible =D
21:47 < genete> even your 3DAxis thing cannot show and hide the faces properly
21:47 < Yoyobuae> the 3D part will only represent the bone structure
21:48 < Yoyobuae> thats a real problem though XD
21:48 < Yoyobuae> but having some guide skeleton might help to find out the right Z depth
21:48 < genete> I've just draw some overlapping regions like real feathers and bend them properly
21:49 < genete> but it is time consumming
21:49 < Yoyobuae> yup =). tweening always is
21:49 < dooglus> genete: sure, why not.
21:49 < genete> there is
21:50 < genete> got it?
21:50 < dooglus> not yet
21:50 < Yoyobuae> btw: netcat is awesome!!
21:50 < dooglus> oh, ok, I see
21:50 < genete> have got the file?
21:51 < timonator> netcat is teh awesome
21:52 < genete> dooglus: the outline called "origin = 0.1" should look like the one called "origin = 0.9" but vertically symmetrical
21:53 < genete> but it turns in the wring way
21:53 < genete> wrong
22:14 < dooglus> genete: i see
22:14 < genete> what do you think?
22:15 < dooglus> genete: i knew i was going to have to look at that horrible code again one day...
22:18 < genete> :/
22:18 < Yoyobuae> that didn't sound good XD
22:19 < Yoyobuae> a nice trick you might like genete: http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/flexible.sifz
22:19 < genete> dooglus: is Syn Fig animation sifz file from Zelig available?
22:20 < genete> neat! :)
22:22 < Yoyobuae> genete: sy'n'fig anim is on "Switching Scenes" tutorial i thing
22:22 < Yoyobuae> s/thing/think/
22:22 < genete> ok, I cannot resist to look how did he the flip flap thing :/
22:27 < Yoyobuae> flexible.sifz you mean?
22:28 < genete> no, the flip flap for the SynFig bird animation
22:28 < Yoyobuae> oh, sy'n'fig bird XD
22:29 < genete> Yoyobuae: can you open this file? http://synfig.org/images/f/fe/Sy-n-fig-s3-boid.sifz
22:29 < genete> and go to frame 3s?
22:30 < Yoyobuae> lol, i just copied the url and was gonna paste it directly into Synfigstudio's open dialog box XD
22:30 < genete> dooglus: it seems there is something broken there
22:30 < genete> it doesn't render properly
22:32 < Yoyobuae> genete: at frame 3s right now =)
22:32 < genete> select the body of the bird
22:33 < genete> what do you see?
22:34 < genete> the body would be deformed by the ball hit but it seems to be wrong
22:34 < genete> the construction curves are fine but the region is worng
22:34 < genete> it renders badly
22:35 < Yoyobuae> yeah i see the ducks deformed, but the bird it's not
22:35 < Yoyobuae> lol, ducks and birds XD
22:35 < genete> render using synfig fails also
22:36 < genete> I think dooglus has broken something :(
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22:38 < Yoyobuae> disable the Timeloop layer =)
22:38 < genete> yes I just discovered too
22:40 < Yoyobuae> also the flip/flap anim is on the first 11 frames
22:40 < Yoyobuae> the vertexes/tangents move on each frame
22:41 < genete> but how to explain why the bdy is affected?
22:42 < Yoyobuae> the body is also under the Timeloop
22:42 < genete> I think that he used the old behavior of the Time Loop layer
22:42 < genete> so the parametes should be changes
22:42 < genete> changed
22:43 < genete> but I guesses that dooglus made a new Time Loop layer version that respect the old parameters behavior
22:43 < genete> it seems that it did not work 
22:46 < dooglus> genete: disable and reenable pretty much any layer at 3s seems to fix it
22:47 < genete> don't understand
22:47  * AkhIL here
22:48 < dooglus> open the boid encap, uncheck and recheck the first layer inside, 'rotate'
22:49 < genete> dooglus:  yes but going to other frame and then back to 3s brokes it again.
22:49 < dooglus> yes
22:49 < Yoyobuae> what happens if "Duration" of a Timeloop layer becomes negative?
22:51 < factor> what ever you do dont cross the streams!
22:51 < factor> sorry ghost busters ref
22:51 < genete> that the bird beomes a duck :P
22:52 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: the Time Loop layer repeatedly loops through the 'Duration' seconds of its child layers, from 'Link Time' to 'Link Time' + 'Duration'
22:52 < dooglus> oh, through -Duration seconds, sorry
22:53 < genete> solution: at 3s, set the local time to 0f and the LHS param of the duration to EOT
22:53 < genete> (End Of Time)
22:53 < dooglus> genete: but this must be a bug I think
22:53 < genete> I know
22:54 < Yoyobuae> i think it relied on broken behavior
22:54 < genete> only want to see the bird properly
22:54 < genete> I believe that the Time Loop layer versioning is broken
22:55 < genete> dooglus: do you want me to open a bug traker?
22:56 < dooglus> genete: please
22:56 < dooglus> genete: but I don't think it can be just versioning
22:57 < dooglus> because whether or not it's different now to how it was before, it's now very odd - I see different rendering of the same frame depending on whether switch a layer off-and-on or not
23:02 < genete>  done
23:02 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/simple-boid.sifz is a very cut-down version with the same bug
23:05 < AkhIL> First Open Video Developer meeting ((ex-)Cinelerra3) will be in Friday the 1. February 2008 at 21:00 GMT on irc.freenode.net in #openvideo
23:05 < AkhIL> just let you know
23:06 < genete> who needs a video editor existing synfig? xD
23:06  * genete hides
23:08 < factor> very cool
23:13 < factor> Akhil:i may drop by then
23:14 < factor> 21 gmt though dont know what time that is
23:14 < dooglus> genete: a simpler example still: http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/simple-boid-2.sifz
23:14 < dooglus> factor: that's 16 est
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23:15 < dooglus> factor: or, to make it easier, about 1 hour 15 minutes ago...
23:15 < factor> sucks
23:16 < factor> wil be at work but will watch
23:17 < factor> hoew do you find out about events like that akhil
23:17 < AkhIL> factor: im on this channel
23:17 < AkhIL> and from cinelerraCV mailng list
23:19 < factor> i weould like to put a link to the url on my page if it has a bunch of freenode meeting info
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23:20 < factor> ok
23:43 < dooglus> genete: I've partially fixed the boid problem - unchecking and rechecking a layer no longer affects what's drawn...
23:43 < dooglus> so now the bad render is permanent :)
23:43 < genete> ;)
23:43 < dooglus> sounds like a step in the wrong direction, maybe?
23:44 < genete> what step?
23:44 < genete> the time loop?
23:45 < dooglus> genete: I mean my fix makes the boid worse, not better.
23:45 < dooglus> genete: the old time loop layer used to have this behaviour:
23:45 < dooglus> "1883030"
23:45 < dooglus> um...
23:46 < dooglus> do you want that uncompressed?  here:
23:46 < dooglus> "If the Start Time is later than the End Time, then the Time Loop Layer doesn't do anything, it acts as if it wasn't there. "
23:46 < genete> 1883030??
23:46 < dooglus> (your bug number - somehow got stuck in my clipboard)
23:46 < genete> ok
23:46 < dooglus> whereas the new timeloop layer interprets negative duration as "play backwards"
23:47 < CIA-39> synfig: dooglus * r1527 /synfig-core/trunk/src/synfig/context.cpp: Disabling and reenabling a layer under a timeloop layer was causing the layer to be rendered at the current time, ignoring the effect of the timeloop layer (until the time slider was adjusted).
23:59 < genete> http://www.darthfurby.com/genete/synfig/duck3.mpg
--- Log closed Thu Jan 31 00:00:01 2008