--- Log opened Wed Feb 27 00:00:13 2008
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00:03 < pixelgeek> genete: almost all the icons I did were direct copies from the Tango design guide
00:03 < genete> hi pixelgeek 
00:04 < genete> but what do you opine about the rectangle and the gradient ones?
00:04 < genete> they confuse me a lot
00:04 < pixelgeek> http://tango.freedesktop.org/ArtLibreSet
00:04 < pixelgeek> I agree.  It's ironic that the color-gradient icon is actually black and white
00:05 < genete> and the rectangle has a gradient inside =)
00:05 < pixelgeek> The idea is that you'll be able to see the same icon in Gimp, inkscape etc. and easily be able to recognise them
00:07 < pixelgeek> Ha!  They've changed them!!!!  Now the draw-rectangle is just the outline!
00:07 < pixelgeek> It didn't used to be - honest!!!
00:07 < genete> =)
00:08 < pixelgeek> That's what you get for following a work in progress...
00:09 < pixelgeek> So if we take the gradients out of the circle, rectangle, polygon, will that make gradient look OK?
00:09 < genete> it seems that flat would be better
00:10  * pixelgeek <3 teh 'bog standard' comment.  Haven't heard that in a while....
00:10 < genete> also the polygon tool is confusing
00:10 < genete> the tango one refers to a regular polygon and the synfig tool refers to a polyline tool 
00:12 < pixelgeek> Yes - I did them in my more naive days...
00:13 < pixelgeek> Went by the icon name rather than the function...
00:13 < genete> would you make a redesign of them? :\
00:13 < pixelgeek> Yes.  I can do that.
00:14 < pixelgeek> So with that previous discussion, is the gradient OK as is?  
00:14  * dooglus is wondering why some icons are bigger than others in some themes
00:14  * dooglus suspects it could be because the tool buttons are 'toggle buttons' and the others aren't
00:14 < pixelgeek> dooglus: can we get gtk to make scalable dialogs?
00:14 < pixelgeek> sorry, that should be can gtk make....
00:15 < genete> pixelgeek: I think you can increase a little the gradient colors difference 
00:15  * factor puts back ther heavy arsenel
00:17 < pixelgeek> ge OK
00:17 < pixelgeek> genete: OK
00:18 < genete> pixelgeek: I've uploaded all the icons to the wiki just a few minutes ago. 
00:19 < pixelgeek> Thanks - thats been on my todo list for many months
00:19 < genete> all the wiki image pages have original name of the file, so please update the wiki once you commit the change
00:20 < genete> also there is a cool icon "sif_icon.png". This one has never been used and can be attached to any link to a sif or sifz file in the wiki. It is very illustrative
00:22  * genete wonder how can that icon be automatically displayed in nautilus when list the sif files.
00:23  * pixelgeek thinks that's one thing MS Windows does do well
00:24 < genete> he he as well as there is only one official file browser
00:42 < factor> home go time back later
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00:44 < pixelgeek> Sounds like a plan - too many distractions around here anyway....
00:50 < genete> bedtime here. See you
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06:39 < pabs3> dooglus: what happens with the url opening when firefox isn't installed?
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09:01 < CIA-41> synfig: pabs * r1819 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/ (splash.cpp splash.h app.cpp): Prepare for the new splash screen; remove old text from the splash, add a shadow frame, only do startup notify after the splash, general clean up.
09:01 < AkhIL> pabs3: Opera opens 8)
09:02 < pabs3> AkhIL: you must have set a preference, here it just does nothing
09:04 < AkhIL> imho software should use environment value like:
09:04 < AkhIL> export BROWSER="opera %s"
09:06 < pabs3> really we should use http://portland.freedesktop.org/xdg-utils-1.0/xdg-open.html
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11:51 < pabs3> MangoFusion: are you near a Mac?
11:52 < MangoFusion> yes
11:55 < pabs3> what are the names of the browsers in your $PATH? or, any idea how to run the user's browser from their settings?
11:56 < pabs3> s/or/and
11:59 < MangoFusion> hmm
11:59 < MangoFusion> i never launch a browser .app from the commandline
12:00 < MangoFusion> one way you could do it would be to make a little program for it. ;)
12:00 < MangoFusion> or
12:01 < MangoFusion> perhaps there is a command to invoke a url?
12:01 < MangoFusion> no idea really
12:02  * pabs3 looks at the gnomeui source code
12:06 < pabs3> MangoFusion: is "safari" or "iexplore" in the $PATH?
12:07 < MangoFusion> nop
12:07 < MangoFusion> e
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12:12 < pabs3> hmm
12:24  * pabs3 finds http://forums.macosxhints.com/archive/index.php/t-68698.html
12:49 < dooglus> pabs3: I think if it can't open the browser, it shows the dialog that you added, giving a non-clickable URL instead
12:49 < dooglus> but I'm in Windows at the moment - there it just opens the web page using the system browser, whatever that is
12:49 < dooglus> if you edit the settings, change the browser to some random string, you'll see what happens
12:49 < pabs3> dooglus: thats only for the "Help" item, the others don't
12:50 < pabs3> dooglus: I wanted to use the function for the URL in the about dialog
12:51 < pabs3> dooglus: working on a replacement for try_open_url/open_url that would do it
12:52 < dooglus> ok
12:57 < pabs3> I think I'll need to add some strings though :(
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16:21 < Genete> Seems that feb challenge voting poll hasn't so much attraction
16:23 < Genete> Sever participants and only 5 votes... and considering pabs3 and dooglus have voted yet... and I know that I've voted... 
16:23 < Genete> Seven^
16:24  * pabs3 has voted
16:24 < Zelgadis> it seems factor voted too
16:24 < Genete> and also rore, so who hasn't voted yet?
16:26 < rore> dyloxin :D
16:26 < rore> (lalala, I'm always there when there's a stupid thing to say ^^)
16:26 < Zelgadis> X)
16:27 < pabs3> heh
16:28 < Genete> pabs3: what's the voting poll end time?
16:28 < pabs3> probably Saturday/Sunday
16:30 < Genete> pabs3: did you finally added any new string to translate?
16:31 < pabs3> will still be working on the URL thing tomorrow
16:31 < pabs3> so, nope, not yet
16:32 < Genete> remember that I would like to have a full clean translation to spanish for the release so don't forget to ping me if any new one arises at final stages...
16:32 < pabs3> sure, will do
16:33  * pabs3 wonders how rore's translation is going
16:33 < Genete> (not like other translator that left the work half done... ) 
16:33 < Genete> ;-)
16:33 < pabs3> :)
16:34 < rore> I'm stuck around 70% of core, IIRC.
16:34  * rore pokes Genete with a bat :p
16:34 < Genete> ouch!
16:34 < pabs3> thats quite a bit, be good to get that committed even though it isn't finished
16:34 < rore> Genete: hey, I gently poked, I didn't hurt you ;)
16:36 < Genete> bat is wood made or foam rubber made?
16:36 < rore> I'm fighting with some *#!$¤@% css at the moment, I'll see what I can do for the translation later this evening 
16:36 < Genete> ;)
16:36 < pabs3> cool, thanks rore :)
16:37 < rore> Genete: and you know what? It seems my spanish accent isn't good at all, at least, that what I noticed this weekend at FOSDEM :)
16:38 < Genete> were spanish people there?
16:38 < rore> yes, some :)
16:39 < Genete> and did them spoke so much moving its arms up and down and from left to right quickly? ;)
16:40 < rore> Genete: almost :) At least one was talking very quickly some english with a heavy spanish accent :) 
16:41 < rore> and laught when I tried to pronounce "carretera" :]
16:41 < Genete> aha! that's the tipical spanish self english teached. Like me =)
16:41 < Genete> lol
16:41 < Genete> difficult word for a frech
16:41 < Genete> french
16:41 < rore> yep :) The "r" are really hard to say 
16:44 < dooglus> Genete: I've not voted.  I don't know my forum password.  When I get back to Linux I will be logged on, but I'm still trying to debug synfig on Windows
16:55 < Zelgadis> I made a discovery.
16:55 < pabs3> Zelgadis: discovery?
16:55 < pabs3> dooglus: any luck?
16:56 < Zelgadis> All womens just go crazy about pixelgeek's Feb entry.
16:56 < Zelgadis> :)
16:57 < pabs3> hmmmm, ok
16:57 < Zelgadis> Me personally can't undersand that.
16:57 < Zelgadis> :)))
16:58 < Genete> dooglus: "I don't know my forum password"  lol. Passwords are always a problem. Don't you have the same for all these kind of sites?
16:58 < Genete> Zelgadis: because you're not a woman ;)
16:58 < Zelgadis> yep!
16:58  * pabs3 zzz
16:59 < Genete> what I don't explain is why all men are not crazy with Zelgadis entry... We should...
17:00 < Zelgadis> Genete: Maybe it's just not good.
17:01 < Zelgadis> I just showed all entries to my friend (woman). She liked  pixelgeek's entry best of all.
17:01 < Zelgadis> %)
17:06 < rore> yeah, women are suposed to like only flowers and cute bunnies, is that what you are saying? ;) 
17:09 < Zelgadis> And robots!
17:09 < Zelgadis> :)))
17:09 < Zelgadis> white robots with synfig logo ^_^
17:10  * Zelgadis don't have anything about womens
17:10  * Zelgadis don't have anything against womens
17:11 < Zelgadis> just noticed interestin fact - that's all -_-"
17:13 < Genete> Zelgadis: you can say that 100% of women you have asked about splash preferences liked the robots one. 1 of 1  = 100% ;)
17:13 < dooglus> Genete: I don't use the same password on multiple sites, no
17:14 < Zelgadis> Genete: No! I got more reliable statistic! 2 of 2! (including rore)
17:15 < dooglus> pabs3: no luck yet, no.  IDE keeps telling me about some kind of error/exception in get_meta_data() that I'm looking into
17:16 < Zelgadis> I'll keep asking! ^_^
17:17 < rore> Zelgadis: hehehe :) Maybe that's because the robots are kinda cute too ;)
17:21 < Zelgadis> rore: Sorry, but not for my taste. Sorry, pixelgeek. :(
17:22 < rore> yes, that was a big "Maybe", in fact
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17:27 < Zelgadis> Everyone has right to have own opinion. It was a big surprise for me to see how she liked the pixelgeek's entry. :)
17:28 < Genete> Zelgadis: did you told her what was your entry?
17:28 < Zelgadis> No.
--- Log opened Wed Feb 27 17:40:34 2008
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17:45 < dooglus> my IRC host just rebooted.  how long was I absent for?
17:45 < Zelgadis> dooglus: you lost nothing
17:46 < dooglus> ok, but was it 1 minute or 5?
17:46 -!- cizra_ [n=cizra@gw.tdng.ttu.ee] has joined #synfig
17:47 < Zelgadis> dooglus: since 22:29:38
17:47 < Zelgadis> till 22:40:34
17:50 < dooglus> oh, that is quite a while
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18:41 < Genete> hi strikeforce
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18:46 < Genete> can I install synfig into a W98 machine?
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19:52 < dooglus> genete: I don't know whether synfig will work in windows 98 or not - but it might
19:52 < genete> I ask it for gtk and gtkmm not for synfig or studio
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19:53 < genete> I have a W98 partition still alive but without internet connection (for viruses issues)
19:59 < genete> dooglus: have you seen the changes I made in the wiki?
20:00 < genete> do you mind the small icons I inserted to the convert wiki page?
20:06 < rore> do you think there's still some w98 compatible viruses? Didn't they all migrate to XP or Vista? ^^
20:06 < rore> (Well, that's what I hope, I'm always afraid that my mother may want to go on the web with her windows98 :) )
20:07 < genete> rore: oh yes I'm sure they still living there. And not only the viruses bu the worms oand other malware forms.
20:08 < genete> My experience on navigating with w98 without anti-virus is a one week stable system. Beyond that it gets completely dump
20:08 < rore> Heh, maybe next time I go at my mother's home, I should find a way to disable the ethernet card in Win98 then :)
20:09 < rore> (although IIRC, her modem/router also do a bit of firewalling)
20:09 < genete> it is quite easy to do. Even for me a complete windows dumb ;)
20:09 < rore> yeah, me too :) 
20:18 < genete> I always wanted to experiment with a clean vulnerable OS surfing by risky internet areas to see in how many time it gets unstable
20:19 < genete> and see if it is true that some viruses format your c: drive =)
20:31 < rore> hehe :) That reminds me when I was checking some forum accounts on a website, when I had a doubt about someone being a bot or not, I sometimes went to the url shown in their profile or email adress
20:32 < rore> and several time I got a "Epiphany can't open blablabla.exe, what do you want to do with this file?" ... well, that kind of messages :)
20:32 < genete> those are the risker ones. And the automatic plugings. 
20:33  * genete believes more everyday that bones can be achieven in synfig... =)
20:33 < genete> achieved^
20:34 < rore> hey, I really wish it could be achieved \o/
20:34 < genete> I would like to create a wiki page like the sound layer one to "invite" dooglus to create them someday...
20:35 < genete> but I need to fix the math concepts first =(
20:37 < genete> one layer <-> one bone that's the main concept
20:41 < genete> rore: when you win the splash challenge please separate a little the words "synfig" and "studio" =)
20:43 < rore> ahahah
20:44 < genete> I'm serious. I love your splash screen but those two so close words annoy me a lot. :/
20:44 < rore> no problem, but the "when you win" makes me laught :)
20:45 < genete> attending to the splash competition partial result you are the winner...
20:45 < genete> (I voted you)
20:45 < dooglus> genete: I hadn't looked much at the wiki recently - I've been in Windows for a few days, and my RSS feed reader is in Linux, but I like the icons on the tool pages, and the new category page
20:46 < genete> ok, thanks dooglus. I'll continue fixing some of them as much I have time.
20:47 < genete> now I'm going to take dinner (not lunch hehe) with my girl friend.
20:47 < genete> ttyl
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20:52 < dooglus> looks like the phpBB needs updating - big red notice in the admin panel
20:52 < dooglus> we have 2.0.22; 2.0.23 is available
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21:03 < rore> punbb ftw ! (ahah, not sure this is better, just a big lighter)
21:25 < dooglus> I hadn't heard of it before
21:25 < dooglus> it does look quite like phpbb doesn't it
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21:32 < dooglus> http://www.nabble.com/C%2B%2B-STL%2C-DLLs-and-our-friend-RtlFreeHeap-td5041627.html
21:36 < dooglus> ^-- synfig on windows seems to come up against that problem lots
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22:37 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: I've been looking into the problem that IDA has been stopping on
22:38 < dooglus> Yoyobuae: it turns out that when WorkArea::load_meta_data() in synfigstudio.exe calls String Canvas::get_meta_data() in libsynfig-0.dll, the passing of a String from the .dll to the .exe triggers this bug: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=24196
22:39 < dooglus> I wonder why it doesn't for you.  Do you have a newer g++ or a newer libstdc++?
22:41 < dooglus> my versions:
22:41 < dooglus> $ g++ -v 2>&1 | grep version
22:41 < dooglus> gcc version 3.4.5 (mingw special)
22:41 < dooglus> $ ls -l /c/mingw/lib/libstdc++.*
22:41 < dooglus> -rw-r--r--    1 asus     Administ  1063794 Jan 18  2006 /c/mingw/lib/libstdc++.a
22:41 < dooglus> -rw-r--r--    1 asus     Administ      685 Jan 18  2006 /c/mingw/lib/libstdc++.la
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22:45  * dooglus never liked the word 'should'
22:48 < rore> shoulder is better :p
22:48 < factor> dho
22:52 < factor> how about shouldest
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22:56 < factor> by the way rore the robots gfx is catching up with your gfx
22:57 < factor> oh looks like a tie for second place
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23:07 < dooglus> factor: following the discussion earlier about "women like robots",
23:07 < dooglus> I asked my girlfriend which of the 7 entries she liked the best
23:08 < dooglus> the top 3 were: (1) factor, (2) the robots, (3) rore
23:08 < dooglus> so it's more evidence for the 'women like robots' camp :)
23:09 < dooglus> mind you, she didn't like the robots as much as she liked the cute animal :)
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23:09 < factor> heh
23:09 < factor> coolies
23:12 < genete> maybe women can read robots gliphos better than men
23:14 < rore> hihi :)
23:15 < factor> heh
23:16 < dooglus> it took me a while to read even though I knew what it said
23:16 < dooglus> the 'i' and '1' as half-circles were the most confusing
23:16 < rore> took me a tiny fraction of second ... 
23:17 < genete> it is true. Women's mind are suited for communication much better than men's 
23:17 < dooglus> uh?
23:18 < genete> but they have less space orientation abilities
23:18 < dooglus> how many axis of symmetry does a cube have?
23:18 < dooglus> it's a question my gf asked me this evening
23:18 < genete> a lot
23:18 < dooglus> that requires a certain amount of spacial awareness
23:19 < dooglus> what if I claim it's a prime number.  can it be?
23:19 < genete> define axis of simmetry
23:20 < dooglus> I mean how many ways can you saw a cube into 2 equal halves
23:20 < dooglus> how many different planes bisect a cube
23:20 < genete> that is planes of simmetry
23:20 < dooglus> no, that's not right
23:20 < genete> that's not the same
23:20 < dooglus> ok, I mean planes of symmetry, yes
23:21 < rore> do you count the planes orientation too ? :)
23:21 < dooglus> the cube must be cut into 2 halves which are mirror images of each other - otherwise there are an infinite number of them
23:21 < dooglus> I count different orientations, yes
23:21 < dooglus> so cutting it in half horizontally is different than vertically
23:22  * rore would say something like 9, only for the basic cut : like [ | ] and < / > ( | and / being the cuts)
23:22 < genete> 12
23:23 < rore> but knowing that a plane rotating around one axis would also cut the cube into similar halves, I would say: infinite number
23:23 < dooglus> rore I see your 9:  you have 3 which are parallel to the face, and 6 that are at 45 degrees to the face, right?
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23:23 < rore> oh wait, similar halfs, but no mirror, sorry
23:23 < genete> but both halfs must be mirror identical
23:24 < dooglus> yes, must be mirror images
23:24 < rore> dooglus: right
23:24 < dooglus> genete: what are your 12?
23:24 < genete> each side has 4 planes of simmetry, right?
23:24 < dooglus> yes
23:25 < dooglus> 5 if you count the plane it is in?
23:25 < genete> you have 3 orientations, right?
23:25 < genete> nop
23:25 < genete> that's part of the other orientation
23:25 < rore> yup, I missed 3 [ | ] 
23:25 < genete> 3x4=12
23:25 < rore> so 12 is ok
23:25 < dooglus> but... you're counting some twice
23:25 < genete> twice?
23:25 < dooglus> cutting horizontally through one face is the same as cutting horizontally through the face to its left
23:26 < genete> ok let me do a sketch
23:26 < rore> 9 is : some [ | ] and < / > and < \ > but forgot the [ -- ] (not really clear explanation)
23:26 < dooglus> I started one earlier, but it was too painful with the constant crashing :)
23:26 < dooglus> rore: I think there are 3 like | and -
23:26 < dooglus> rore: and 6 like / and \
23:27 < rore> dooglus: ho wait, you are right :)
23:27 < rore> the 4 cuts per face sounded so logical, I was tricked ;)
23:28 < dooglus> when I asked, I thought there were 4 more: stand the cube on one corner, and cut through it horizontally
23:28 < dooglus> a true diagonal cut
23:30 < genete> right 9 then
23:31 < dooglus> shame
23:31 < rore> hmm, I didn't thought of the diagonal cut
23:31 < dooglus> I thought it was 13
23:32 < dooglus> imagine it stands on just one corner, so the opposite corner is its highest point
23:32 < dooglus> then cut horizontally through it
23:32 < dooglus> there are 4 ways of doing that (chose 4 different corners to stand it on)
23:32 < genete> but that's not simmetrical
23:32 < dooglus> no, and that's a shame
23:32 < dooglus> the 2 halves are the same, but not mirrored
23:33 < genete> so nine is the solution
23:33 < dooglus> yeah
23:33 < dooglus> I thought http://www.georgehart.com/virtual-polyhedra/symmetry_axes.html was backing me up when it talks of "The Thirteen Axes of the Cube and/or Octahedron" - but it's not
23:33 < factor> 3 cubed
23:34 < factor> oh sorry 3 squared
23:34 < dooglus> 3 squared, yeah
23:37 < rore> My mind keeps on telling me there must some diagonal cuts that works, although my test with blender show there's not :)
23:37  * dooglus wonders why we use msys+mingw rather than cygwin to build on windows
23:38 < factor> cygwin req posix layer mingw just used windows versions
23:40 < genete> I know one for kids: 
23:40 < genete> one snail lies in the bottom of a dry well.
23:40 < genete> he want to go out and spend all the day climbing the well walls. 
23:40 < genete> It advances 2 meteres during the day.
23:40 < genete> But unfortunately during the night it is so tired and gets back one meter meanwhile sleeps.
23:40 < genete> If the well has 10 meters and it starts at the beggining of the fisrt day, how many days will take to the snail get out of the well?
23:41 < rore> weeheee, I just found again the paper where I noted the words I used for the translations. 
23:42 < dooglus> genete: I heard it before (when I was a kid, I guess :) )
23:42 < rore> genete: the poor snail will be dried too before it gets outs ;)
23:42 < genete> ha ha ha... poor snail!
23:43 < genete> I said dry to avoid any suspicious imagination of the snail floating or being carried by a water can
23:43 < dooglus> probably a C programmer is the worst person to ask that question of :)
23:43 < dooglus> (and the best)
23:43 < genete> come on!
23:44 < genete> it is so easy!! 2 during the day ... one less during the night...
23:44 < dooglus> I'm say 9 days and 8 nights
23:44 < rore> genete: but that question was fun, I started thinking "1meter per day, so 10 days ......... ooooooooooh wait ... :D" 
23:44 < genete> he he he
23:44 < genete> dooglus is right
23:45 < rore> yup
23:45 < genete> it is like my error with the simmetry planes (4 per face and 3 faces 3x4=12)
23:45 < dooglus> it's a problem that doesn't happen much with C++ (where we go from list.begin() to list.end()) but in C we have that kind of off-by-one problem all the time
23:47 < dooglus> it's looking like I might have to rebuild the C++ library to get a stable windows build of studio :)
23:47 < genete> for (i=0, i+=2) { if i==10 then break; i--;}
23:49 < dooglus> :)
23:49 < genete> dooglus: I've following the problem what are you fighting with windows. Wasn't it a recently introduced problem or an old one?
23:49 < dooglus> genete: there's a bot on IRC who you can message with C code and he tells you the result of running it
23:49 < dooglus> genete: very old
23:50 < genete> dooglus: but only now is giving the face?
23:50 < genete> I did not remember any old bug on traker about that
23:51 < dooglus> genete: the windows build has always been much less stable than linux I think
23:51 < dooglus> genete: but historically they were both pretty buggy
23:51 < dooglus> genete: now that I've fixed a lot of the bugs that were showing up in linux, the windows-only bugs are more noticeable I guess
23:52 < genete> can you reccomend me a way to easily try the windows synfig version in my W98 machine?
23:52 < genete> atrus or pixelgeek executables?
23:52 < dooglus> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=24196 was opened in Oct 2005
23:53 < dooglus> genete: they should be much the same
23:53 < dooglus> genete: pixelgeek uses atrus' build scripts
23:53 < genete> ok
23:53 < dooglus> building on windows makes everything feel so sluggish
23:54 < dooglus> it's a very different feel to when a linux desktop gets overloaded
23:55 < genete> is there any recipe to reproduce the bug you're working on now (on windows)
23:55 < genete> ?
23:55 < dooglus> I don't even know if this bug is causing any real trouble
23:56 < dooglus> the debugger I was using reliably tells me that deleting a string passed from core to studio causes an exception in the free() code
23:56 < dooglus> I'm guessing that could be important, but don't know
23:56 < genete> aaah
23:56 < genete> dooglus: this link from atrus windows version (in download page) seems to be broken
23:57 < dooglus> interestingly, Yoyobuae was using the same debugger, and not seeing the error
23:57 < genete> http://gladewin32.sourceforge.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=52
23:57 < dooglus> genete: pixelgeek's newest are at http://synfig.org/code/
23:58 < genete> so mixing pixelgeek links and atrus synfig and synfigstudio exes is sane?
23:58 < genete> ok
23:59 < dooglus> links?
23:59 < genete> from the download page to get gtk and gtkmm
23:59 < dooglus> oh, sure
23:59 < genete> ok
23:59 < dooglus> I don't know why he's linking to 2.10.8 of gtkmm though
23:59 < dooglus> I've seen 2.10.11 around
--- Log closed Thu Feb 28 00:00:08 2008