--- Log opened Sun Mar 02 00:00:28 2008
00:08 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has joined #synfig
00:31 -!- AkhIL [n=AkhIL@90.188.201.182] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:32 -!- AkhIL [n=AkhIL@90.188.201.182] has joined #synfig
00:45 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:46 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #synfig
02:09 -!- pabs3 [n=pabs@d122-105-74-150.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #synfig
02:11 < dooglus> hi pabs3
02:12 < pabs3> yo
02:12 < dooglus> I made a small change to the browser code earlier - it was giving me error dialogs after running firefox
02:12  * pabs3 grrs at gnome not hibernating his laptop when it ran out of power
02:13 < dooglus> I never even get a warning that power is low - it just shuts down
02:13 < dooglus> most times I don't even realise the power cable has fallen out - all I need is a 10 second warning and I'll plug it back in
02:24 -!- rubikcube [n=kvirc@dslc-082-082-064-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies"]
02:36 < pabs3> dooglus: ah, woops, sorry about that bug!
02:44 < pabs3> dooglus: so, it looks like rore wins
02:44 < pabs3> rore: hows your translations going? be good to add whatever you got before we release
03:32 < pixelgeek> pabs - and we have splash screens for the next 7 releases!
03:32 < pabs3> :)
03:36 < factor> heh
03:46 < dooglus> I wonder what revision control darco used when developing synfig, and whether the revision history is available anywhere
03:47 < dooglus> svn revision 1 is pretty much the same as the current version
03:47 < dooglus> most of the development seems to have been done before revision 1
03:49 < pabs3> the ChangeLog.old files have some of the log comments
03:49 < pabs3> I think it was developed with CVS
03:50 < dooglus> it would be good to get hold of that old history and import it into svn
03:52 < pabs3> or git
04:02 < dooglus> whatever, yes
04:03 < dooglus> I'd like to be able to look back and see the checkin comment for some of the weird stuff
04:03 < dooglus> these 2 lines in valuenode_animated.cpp:
04:03 < dooglus> const float timeadjust(0.5);
04:03 < dooglus> // Adjust for time
04:03 < dooglus> there's no other explanation, and they've been there since the beginning of svn time
04:04 < dooglus> I think 1.0 would be a much better value, but maybe there's a good reason for 0.5
04:07 < pabs3> yeah
04:38 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
06:18 < pabs3> dooglus: asking darco about that
08:10 -!- factor_ [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #synfig
08:27 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:28 -!- factor_ is now known as factor
08:53 -!- Zelgadis [n=zelgadis@87.103.170.113] has joined #synfig
08:55  * Zelgadis goes crazy about Yoyobuae's example (http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/bline_attached.sifz)
08:56 < Zelgadis> really impressive technique
08:57 < Zelgadis> And seems more perspective for me than bones. Gotta try it.
09:11 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:14 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #synfig
09:18 -!- pixelgeek [n=chatzill@c-71-59-140-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
09:29 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:35 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has joined #synfig
10:31 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has quit ["Adios"]
10:54 -!- mib_fi798lfb [i=d2070740@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-698a332f70f5d735] has joined #synfig
10:54 < mib_fi798lfb> hey guys i,m having trouble installing synfig all files are installed but when i run synfig studio i get this file is missing libxml++-2.6-2.dll 
10:54 < mib_fi798lfb> on windows xp
10:54 < mib_fi798lfb> any help
10:55 < dooglus> hmmm
10:55 < mib_fi798lfb> ive installed all required files but still it says  that the dlls missing  libxml++-2.6-2.dll 
10:56 < dooglus> do you have that file somewhere?
10:56 < mib_fi798lfb> what file?
10:56 < dooglus> I'm looking to see if I have it on my Windows partition at all
10:56 < dooglus> I guess I must have
10:57 < mib_fi798lfb> yeah you must have (i installed the svn version of  synfig )
10:58 < dooglus> did you install GTK?
10:58 < mib_fi798lfb> is theer some environment variable i have to setup or something?
10:58 < mib_fi798lfb> yeah gtk and all the files required
10:58 < mib_fi798lfb> synfig and synfig studio too
10:59 < dooglus> do you have this file?  c:/gtk/bin/libxml++-2.6-2.dll
10:59 < mib_fi798lfb> no its not there
10:59 < dooglus> hmmm
10:59 < dooglus> that's where it is for me
11:00 < dooglus> I guess it comes as part of GTK (else why's it in that folder)
11:00 < dooglus> did you install GTK to the default C:/GTK/ location?
11:00 < Zelgadis> mib_fi798lfb: where are you installed GTK?
11:00 < mib_fi798lfb> i have gtk2
11:00 < mib_fi798lfb> folder
11:00 < mib_fi798lfb> at D:\Program Files
11:00 < mib_fi798lfb> theers nothing in c 
11:00 < dooglus> I wonder if Synfig expects it to be at C:/GTK/
11:01 < mib_fi798lfb> well yeah i dd that at first gtk and everything else was on c when it didnt work than i installed it on d and it still doesnt work
11:02 < mib_fi798lfb> what version of synfig are you using
11:02  * Zelgadis thinks something wrong with PATH system variable
11:03 < mib_fi798lfb> how do i change it >? is synfig excpeting everything to be at c drive?
11:05 < mib_fi798lfb> nothings working i reinstalled everything back on c again 
11:07 < dooglus> synfig just wants to find "libxml-2.6.2.dll", and uses your PATH to find it
11:07 < dooglus> the GTK installer should set your PATH up to include the directory where it puts its DLLs
11:08 < mib_fi798lfb> ok after installing everything back on c drive synfig isnt asking for any missing dlls anymore but now only a blck screen comes and goes away
11:08 < dooglus> are you left with icons on the task bar after that?
11:08 < mib_fi798lfb> no theres nothing
11:09 < mib_fi798lfb> pn the taskbar 
11:09 < dooglus> ok
11:09 < dooglus> is this Vista?
11:09 < mib_fi798lfb> everytime i click on it it says starting up application (no its windows xp service pack 2)
11:10 < dooglus> it flashes up a black window saying 'starting up application' then it disappears again?
11:10 < dooglus> no other error message?
11:10 < mib_fi798lfb> no errors anymore
11:11 < mib_fi798lfb> black screen opens than closes
11:11 < mib_fi798lfb> starting up application
11:11 < dooglus> do you have VNC so I can take a look?
11:11 < mib_fi798lfb> i disabled it for security reasons although we can use msn
11:12 < dooglus> I don't have MSN.  I run Linux.
11:13 < dooglus> Zelgadis: do you build from source?
11:14 < mib_fi798lfb> oh ok i see ( i,ll just describe it ive got everything instaled )when i click on synfig studio i con all i get is a black ms dos screen pop (starting application for a spilt second) and than closes nothing happens
11:14 < Zelgadis> dooglus: What?
11:14 < mib_fi798lfb> no i am using the svn version from  http://atrus.mmaa.ru/synfig/
11:14 < dooglus> Zelgadis: I mean, do you build synfig yourself, or use pxegeek's installers?
11:14 < mib_fi798lfb> installers (i,m not a coder)
11:14 < Zelgadis> dooglus: On windows? pxegeek's
11:15 < dooglus> mib_fi798lfb: I understand what you're seeing.  I'd like to try running it from a DOS prompt window
11:15 < dooglus> mib_fi798lfb: can you do that?
11:15 < mib_fi798lfb> yeah just give me the command line
11:15 < dooglus> first:
11:15 < mib_fi798lfb> default will work 
11:15 < dooglus> cd c:\program<TAB>synfig`bin
11:15 < dooglus> then
11:15 < dooglus> synfigstudio
11:16 < dooglus> cd c:\program<TAB>synfig\bin
11:16 < dooglus> the ` was a typo
11:17 < mib_fi798lfb> tab as in i press tab on my keyboard?
11:18 < mib_fi798lfb> same thing happens
11:18 < mib_fi798lfb> black screen starting up application
11:21 < dooglus> Zelgadis: hmmm
11:22 < mib_fi798lfb> you were saying about environment variables?
11:22 < mib_fi798lfb> may be i have to edit the path and variables
11:26 < mib_fi798lfb> yeah tried aeverything nothings working 
11:27 < mib_fi798lfb> am i blocked or something?
11:27 < dooglus> no
11:27 < dooglus> I just don't know what to tell you
11:28 < dooglus> I would expect to see some error message if the PATH was wrong
11:29 < mib_fi798lfb> C:\Program Files\synfig
11:29 < mib_fi798lfb> well thats the path
11:29 < mib_fi798lfb> and synfig .exe is located in hereC:\Program Files\synfig\bin
11:31 < dooglus> did you try the last official release?
11:31 < mib_fi798lfb> it  finally started it seems that  gtk and gtkmm are required to be installed in c drive
11:32 < mib_fi798lfb> only and that synfig and synfig studio are required to be installed on the partition you windows is installed in my case on d drive
11:33 < mib_fi798lfb> i,ll remeber today i spent a good 2 and a half hours trying to get synfig to work
11:35 < mib_fi798lfb> hey is it me or the synfigs origional gui resembles windows classic
11:38 < dooglus> synfig's original gui?  it's only ever had one I think
11:38 < dooglus> and what's 'windows classic'?
11:39 < mib_fi798lfb> i,m looking at the dos background of synfig and its scary is this normall >?536  gtk critical widget failed 
11:39 < mib_fi798lfb> clasic as in the gui is not too fany its just a pale grey gui(thats what i meant)
11:41 < dooglus> it's a Gtk app really, ported from Linux
11:41 < dooglus> so it looks like a Gtk app, rather than a Windows one
11:42 < mib_fi798lfb> oh yeah (i keep forgetting that it was origionally made for linux)lol
11:42 < dooglus> it doesn't really work very well on Windows still unless you restrict it to a single CPU
11:42 < mib_fi798lfb> i see  it is verypowerfull
11:43 < mib_fi798lfb> so douglous are you a developer or just a user of synfig
11:43 < dooglus> I'm a developer, but mostly just fix bugs
11:44 < mib_fi798lfb> ok
11:45 < mib_fi798lfb> hope to chat with you later thanks for all the help
11:45 < dooglus> I'll probably be here :)
11:45 < dooglus> ttyl
11:46 -!- mib_fi798lfb [i=d2070740@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-698a332f70f5d735] has left #synfig []
11:47 < dooglus> Zelgadis: remember you told me you had to set more than 2 waypoints to get stability?
11:47 < dooglus> (on Friday)
11:47 < dooglus> I found that if you set waypoints at 0,1,4,5 with values 0,1,4,5 then you don't get a straight line curve
12:16 -!- _Elk [n=_Elk@ti0110a340-0355.bb.online.no] has joined #synfig
12:17 < Zelgadis> dooglus: preserving curve is not our goal (it'svery-very hard). Our goal is to preserve keyframevalues
12:17 < Zelgadis> s/keyframevalues/values of keyframes/
12:19 < Zelgadis> dooglus: as genete mentioned:
12:19 < Zelgadis> >>Feb 29 22:44:21 <genete>	Zelgadis: imagine that you have a bizarre manual interpolation in one of the waypoints, won't you prevent to keep the values?
12:21 < dooglus> Zelgadis: the thing is, only 4 waypoints affect each TCB curve segment
12:21 < Zelgadis> it's too hard to reproduce curve if we have "bizarre manual interpolation in one of the waypoints". And I think we don't need to.
12:21 < Zelgadis> dooglus: not understand. can you give an example?
12:22 < dooglus> if you have 6 waypoints, at times A,B,C,D,E,F
12:22 < dooglus> the curve between C and D should be determined by only the waypoints B,C,D,E
12:22 < dooglus> changing A's value can affect the curve as far as C, but no further
12:22 < Zelgadis> yes
12:23 < Zelgadis> but
12:25 < Zelgadis> when we setting _new_ waypoint, we need to check if values preserved in 2 next keyframe and 2 previous (if they haven't waypoints)
12:25 < dooglus> so, ifyes
12:25 < dooglus> yes
12:25 < dooglus> and setting those 2 waypoints could affect the rest of the curve, recursively.
12:25 < dooglus> I get it
12:26 < Zelgadis> and if they not preserved we setting waypoints to them and do same checking against fresh created waypoints again
12:26 < Zelgadis> right!
12:26 < dooglus> so you edit a single parameter at a single point in time and suddenly lots of waypoints get created for it
12:27 < dooglus> is that OK?
12:27 < Zelgadis> It is ok, because I want to preserve values of keyframes.
12:27 < dooglus> and what interpolation should be used for the new, automatically-created waypoints?
12:28 < Zelgadis> I think it'snatural to use TCB
12:28 < Zelgadis> because if we use default interpolation type
12:29 < Zelgadis> when "default interpolation type" = Constant all smooth animation could become a set of ugly steps
12:29 < dooglus> shouldn't we use the interpolation type that was previously being used for the curve we just split?
12:29 < Zelgadis> How could we determine that?
12:29 < dooglus> if the keyframes are A-F, but only A and F have waypoints
12:30 < dooglus> and we edit the value at E, say
12:30 < dooglus> we need to set new waypoints at C and D to keep the keyframes stable
12:31 < dooglus> so we set C:in to be the same as F:in?
12:31 < Zelgadis> Why not to A:out?
12:31 < Zelgadis> ;)
12:32 < dooglus> yeah, I see what you mean
12:32 < dooglus> but if the whole animation is using linear interpolation, and the default method is linear, why use TCB for the new waypoints?
12:32 < dooglus> maybe the animator wants everything to be linear
12:32 < dooglus> or constant ever
12:32 < dooglus> even
12:33 < Zelgadis> hmmm... let me think for a moment
12:34 < Zelgadis> Maybe this help:
12:34 < Zelgadis> keyframes are A-F
12:34 < Zelgadis> only A and F have waypoints
12:34 < Zelgadis> we editing waypoint at D
12:35 < Zelgadis> I mean, editing value at D
12:35 < Zelgadis> Then C,D,E are set to default interpolation type
12:35 < Zelgadis> all other to TCB
12:35 < dooglus> C:out, D:both and E:in are set to default?
12:36 < Zelgadis> yes
12:36 < Zelgadis> this may do the trick
12:36 < dooglus> I don't like using TCB if it's not been selected by the animator
12:36 < dooglus> I'd rather use something he's already used
12:36 < pabs3> rore: around?
12:37 < Zelgadis> dooglus: hmm... you have a point
12:38 < Zelgadis> Maybe we could somehow detect interpolation type?
12:38 < dooglus> I think using the default interp. method is OK for now
12:38 < dooglus> if you don't want lots of constant waypoints placed along your curve, don't use the constant default interp. type?
12:39 < Zelgadis> that's true
12:39 < dooglus> I found a strange constant in the code that was making the TCB curves act strangely
12:39 < Zelgadis> but why while duplicating keyframe we set it's waypoint int. type to TCB?
12:39 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/straight-line-tcb.png shows curves with the 'adjust' parameter at 0.5 and at 1.0
12:40 < dooglus> we do?
12:40 < Zelgadis> as mentioned in wiki
12:40  * Zelgadis checking
12:40 < Zelgadis> to be sure
12:40 < Zelgadis> yes
12:40 < Zelgadis> that's true
12:41 < dooglus> it shows old, then new, then another old, then another new example
12:41 < dooglus> basically showing how the curve that should be straight isn't in the current code, but can be fixed to be straight
12:42 < Zelgadis> what values have radius?
12:42 < Zelgadis> at waypoints
12:43 < Zelgadis> oh, i see from graph %)
12:44 < dooglus> the value is equal to the time at each waypoint
12:44 < dooglus> it's 5 fps I think
12:44 < dooglus> with waypoints at 0.2, 4.8 or 2.4, 2.6
12:45 < dooglus> graphs 1 and 2 are showing identical data, but with different code (the 'adjust' parameter changed from 0.5 to 1.0)
12:45 < dooglus> same with 3 and 4 - same data, different code
12:46 < Zelgadis> so the current adjust in code is 0.5?
12:48 < dooglus> yes
12:48 < Zelgadis> I like the 1.0 more but
12:48 < dooglus> I think it's wrong, but there's no explanation of why it is set to that
12:49 < dooglus> I notice something else funny about keyframes
12:49 < dooglus> if I have keyframes at 0,2,4 and a waypoint at 3
12:49 < dooglus> then when I edit parameter at 2, a waypoint gets set at 4
12:49 < dooglus> even though there's already one at 3
12:49 < Zelgadis> how animation curve will look for waypoints which values changing not linear?
12:50 < dooglus> got an example .sif file with an interesting curve?
12:50 < Zelgadis> yes
12:50 < dooglus> I can make screenshots of how it is affected
12:50 < Zelgadis> http://zelgadis.profusehost.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/constant_intervals.sifz
12:50 < Zelgadis> simple
12:57 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/adjust.png
12:57 < dooglus> 0.5 on top, then 1.0
12:59 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/adjust-2.png - the two graphs overlayed on each other
12:59 < Zelgadis> I just done it :)))
13:00 < Zelgadis> difference is slight
13:00 < Zelgadis> 1.0 is better, as it produces linear curves when it needed
13:00 < dooglus> the difference is how the tangents of each curve is combinate with the tangent of the previous curve
13:01 < dooglus> combined
13:01 < Zelgadis> but for animation in older versions it must be setto 0.5 then
13:02 < dooglus> versioned waypoints?  ugh.
13:04 < Zelgadis> no. just when working with files created in synfig < 0.61.08 it must use ajust=0.5
13:04 < Zelgadis> *adjust
13:04 < dooglus> ah, but...
13:04 < dooglus> what if you load your old animation into 0.61.08, make a tiny change to the color of something and save it again
13:05 < dooglus> now the file was created in synfig 0.61.08 - do we use adjust=1.0 now?
13:05 < Zelgadis> yeah
13:05 < dooglus> that changes the curves
13:06 < Zelgadis> Maybe we must display a warning with suggestion to save in older version?
13:07 < dooglus> it's tricky
13:07 < Zelgadis> why?
13:08 < dooglus> what if you want to add new animation to an old file
13:08 < dooglus> it's quite possible you want to mix the two
13:09 < Zelgadis> then not allow to mix two animation with different versions :)
13:09 < Zelgadis> Warning again :-/
13:11 < Zelgadis> I think if we want to fix the adjust parameter, we must do it as early as possible, while not so many animations created with synfig ;)
13:11 < Zelgadis> But something distracts me.
13:12 < Zelgadis> Why adjust was set to  0.5 originally?
13:12 < Zelgadis> Maybe we shouldn't change such things just before the release
13:13 < Zelgadis> We may change it after release in SVN and see if it worth to stay
13:15 -!- xerakko [n=Miguel@debian/developer/xerakko] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
13:18 < dooglus> right
13:18 < dooglus> I don't intend to change it now
13:19 < Zelgadis> dooglus: one question
13:19 < Zelgadis> What "Rotate order" do?
13:20 < dooglus> for blines?
13:21 < Zelgadis> yes
13:21 < dooglus> it just sets which blinepoint is the end
13:21 < dooglus> if you unloop you'll see
13:21 < Zelgadis> oh, i see
13:21 < Zelgadis> One more question :)
13:22 < Zelgadis> Suppose we have main canvas with keyframes set
13:22 < Zelgadis> and exported paste canvas on it with it's own set of keyframes
13:23 < dooglus> I'm not going to know the answer to this :)
13:23 < Zelgadis> when I editing animation in exported canvas from main canvas the waypoints are set according to keyframes of themain canvas
13:23 < dooglus> it's too complicated...
13:23 < Zelgadis> is it a bug?
13:24 < Zelgadis> Well...
13:24 < dooglus> I don't know
13:24 < dooglus> but there are lots of bugs to do with exported canvases
13:24 < Zelgadis> I know
13:24 < dooglus> try creating a new layer in the exported canvas from the main canvas window
13:24 < Zelgadis> crash, I know ;)
13:25 < dooglus> looking at the code around the 'adjust=0.5', I see old commented code trying 0.0 and 1.0 too :)
13:25 < dooglus> I guess 0.5 was a compromise
13:26 < Zelgadis> I hope we test 1.0 after release :)
13:27 < Zelgadis> we could set adjust=0.61 :)))
13:27 < dooglus> 0.61.08 :)
13:28 < Zelgadis> aha :)
13:28 < Zelgadis> after nex release: adjust = 0.70, and so on :)
13:29 < Zelgadis> nobody see the changes :)))))
14:41 -!- rubikcube [n=kvirc@dslb-088-070-027-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #synfig
14:42 < pabs3> hi rubikcube 
14:45 < pabs3> rore: poke poke!
14:48 < rore> pabs3: aaaaaaah!
14:48 < pabs3> :)
14:48  * pabs3 committing genete's translation update now
14:51 < rubikcube> hi pabs3
14:52 < rore> 86% of synfig core translated, is that enough to submit?
14:56 < pabs3> rore: sure
14:56 < pabs3> dooglus: do you feel like doing the release, or should I ?
14:58 < rore> pabs3: so http://rore.dyndns.org/rore/synfig/core_fr.po 
15:04 < pabs3> rore: 503 translated messages, 52 fuzzy translations, 103 untranslated messages.
15:04 < pabs3> doing a test build/install to make sure synfig works with it
15:05 < rore> baaaaahh ... why do I have 524 translated messages and 82 untranslated messages ?
15:06 < pabs3> haven't done an svn up && make -C po update-po recently?
15:07 < pabs3> rore: for studio: 779 translated messages, 67 fuzzy translations, 60 untranslated messages.
15:10 < rore> heh, why was this command removed from the Translation wiki page?
15:11 < pabs3> still there: If you update to a new revision of the code, please run "make update-po" in the po/ directories before updating the translation.
15:12 < rore> blah, that's lost in the 1st chapter, about how to stard a *new* translation
15:13 < Zelgadis> Edit it ;)
15:15 < rore> done :)
15:15 < CIA-35> synfig: pabs * r1829 /synfig-studio/trunk/po/es.po: Apply 1905598: Checked in new Spanish translations from genete.
15:16 < rore> The worst thing is that I looked at this page, search for how to test the translations, generated the po and gmo etc, files, and I really didn't understood why there was so few changes in the files
15:16 < rore> and why there was no fuzzy strings
15:21 < pabs3> the translation works nicely here
15:22  * rore laugh at the fuzzy strings
15:24 < Zelgadis> night all
15:24 -!- Zelgadis [n=zelgadis@87.103.170.113] has quit ["Пока!"]
15:38 < pabs3> rore: doing some unfuzzying?
15:41 < rore> yes
15:44 < pabs3> cool
15:45 < rore> pabs3: http://rore.dyndns.org/rore/synfig/core_fr.po unfuzzied :)
15:45 < pabs3> thanks
15:46 < rore> now I'll take a look at studio, maybe not to translate more, but just to make sure the fuzzy strings aren't too bad 
15:48 < pabs3> might want to look at the new strings in the help menu and the about dialog
15:50 < pabs3> rore: oh, and the translation-credits string is a good thing to translate
15:50 < rore> yes, at the moment I'm just making sure that "Quit" wasn't translated by "Qualité" (quality), that kind of things :)
15:51 < pabs3> :)
15:54 < pabs3> rore: committed synfig-core one as r1830
15:54 < dooglus> pabs3: if you could do it, that would be great
15:55 < dooglus> pabs3: I didn't update the NEWS file for a few weeks - there have been a few changes since then.  did you catch those, or should I?
15:55 < pabs3> hmm, synfig-core es.po is a little fuzzy
15:56 < pabs3> dooglus: be good if you could check them, and add anything significant things that don't fit in "fixed bugs, blah blah"
15:56 < pabs3> dooglus: please update this too: synfig.org/Releases/0.61.08
16:01 < dooglus> there have been around 180 commits since I updated the NEWS file :(
16:04 < rore> question: in gtkmm/toolbox.cpp, around line 270, there's some string that obviously are links to some wiki pages (like "/Keyboard_Shortcuts") and ... they are marked for translation? Is that ok?
16:04 < pabs3> yep, the idea is you could point them to the french versions if they exist
16:05 < pabs3> http://synfig.org/Keyboard_Shortcuts.fr
16:05 < pabs3> http://synfig.org/Getting_Started.ru
16:05 < pabs3> rore: if you want to translate some wiki pages to french: http://synfig.org/WikiTranslation
16:06 < rore> ok
16:11 < CIA-35> synfig: pabs * r1830 /synfig-core/trunk/ (po/fr.po configure.ac AUTHORS): Add mostly-complete Français translation by Aurore D (rore).
16:15 < rore> pabs3: http://rore.dyndns.org/rore/synfig/studio_fr.po for the unfuzzied studio translation (I didn't add much new strings, but at least the weird fuzzy translations are gone :)) 
16:16 < pabs3> thanks
16:17 < pabs3> rore: uh, translator-credits should be your name: TRANSLATORS: change this to your name, separate multiple names with \n
16:23  * pabs3 replaces it with "Aurore D (rore)"
16:26 < rore> aahah, darn, I made the "Comments" dialog in KBabel so small that I didn't saw that
16:29 < pabs3> committed the studio one as r1831
16:31 < CIA-35> synfig: pabs * r1831 /synfig-studio/trunk/po/fr.po: Update Français translation by Aurore D (rore).
16:44 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has joined #synfig
16:44 < dooglus> pabs3: I mostly just updated the wiki page.  There wasn't anything too important for the NEWS file, other than 2 more ValueNode types to mention.
16:47 < pabs3> dooglus: ok, thanks
16:49 < CIA-35> synfig: dooglus * r1832 /synfig-core/trunk/NEWS: Add 'BLine Width' and 'Step' to the list of new ValueNodes.
17:01  * pabs3 ooohs at GPL3 povray
17:02 < pabs3> http://news.povray.org/povray.general/message/%3C46e091ef%241%40news.povray.org%3E/#%3C46e091ef%241%40news.povray.org%3E
17:10 < CIA-35> synfig: dooglus * r1833 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/synfigapp/actions/ (activepointsetsmart.cpp waypointsetsmart.cpp): Typos.
17:10 < CIA-35> synfig: dooglus * r1834 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/synfigapp/actions/ (activepointsetsmart.cpp waypointsetsmart.cpp): Typos.
17:52 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
17:52 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
18:01 < pabs3> rore wins! http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=232#232
18:02 -!- pabs3 changed the topic of #synfig to: http://synfig.org/FAQ | http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=232#232 rore wins February Challenge! | synfig 0.61.08 coming soon from http://synfig.org/Download | news: http://synfig.org/News/2008-01-02 http://synfig.org/News/Draft | Ask your question and wait - we will answer it eventually!
18:04 < factor> dum dum dum...!
18:04 < factor> RECOUNT!
18:05 < factor> yeah, hers is perfect for the splash screen.
18:14 < pabs3> hmm, I can't open the source file
18:16 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
18:16 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:16 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
18:18 < Yoyobuae> Zelgadis: I'm gonna try to make a few usable templates =)
18:18 < factor> pabs3 I cant open it either.
18:18 < Yoyobuae> Zelgadis: I'm glad you liked it =)
18:19 < factor> templates would be a good thing
18:19 < pabs3> factor: looks like it is using the logo in some strange dir
18:19 < Yoyobuae> when synfig imports a canvas and it can't find it, what does it do?
18:20 < pabs3> quick poll, do we want the old splash screen in synfigstudio-0.61.08.tar.gz, or just leave it in SVN?
18:21 < pabs3> Yoyobuae: this looks like a pastecanvas layer and it seems to just give up on opening the file
18:22 < pabs3> hmm, next time we should ask for new installer images too
18:22 < Yoyobuae> how about a warning like: "Cannot find required file: /dir/file.sifz" 
18:23 < pabs3> that would be good, too late for 0.61.08 though :)
18:23 < factor> yup
18:23 < factor> good idear
18:24 < Yoyobuae> oh well, for 0.61.08 =D
18:24 < Yoyobuae> s/0.61.08/0.61.09/
18:26 < factor> of course my installer is apt-get
18:27 < CIA-35> synfig: pabs * r1835 /synfig-studio/trunk/images/ (splash_screen.sif Makefile.am splash_screen-0.61.07.sif): Rename the current splash screen to make way for the winner of the February Challenge!
18:27 < pabs3> rore: ah, your splash has no copyright/licence info in it
18:30 < rore> oh, is there a way to embed that in the sifz file?
18:31 < pabs3> rore: yeah, check out some of the icons by genete/pixelgeek 
18:31 < pabs3> they have <desc>foo</desc> in them
18:33 < rore> in the text file, or visible in the interface?
18:33 < pabs3> rore: it is in the canvas properties dialog, the description field
18:34 < pabs3> really need to fix the metadata panel so it could be added there
18:36 < rore> ah, far from obvious, indeed ;) I thought genete did the encapsulate icon, but there's no description, so I guess I'm wrong
18:36 < pabs3> yeah, some of them don't have that info
18:38 < rore> ok, just found some (after a grep in the image dir)
18:41 < rore> genete wanted me to add a bit of space between the 2 texts ("synfig" & "studio"), should I do that too ?
18:43 < factor> I thought the text was perfect.
18:44 < pabs3> rore: as long as the text isn't touching it is ok
18:44 < pabs3> in the png on the forum it is touching
18:45 < rore> yup, maybe just a tiny space would be better
18:45 < Yoyobuae> i agree also =)
18:47 < rore> http://rore.dyndns.org/rore/synfig/splash2.png is that one ok?
18:48 < pabs3> looks great rore !
18:49 < pabs3> rore: the O looks like it is cut off a bit
18:50 < rore> pabs3: I noticed that too, it's already "cut" in the current splash
18:51 < rore> heh, if I add a space after, the letter is fine
18:51 < rore> another bug? ;)
18:51 < pabs3> I guess so :(
18:51 < factor> still looks good.
18:51 < rore> wait, now the S is cut O_o
18:53 < rore> I found it, there was a rectangle on which the text was added
18:53 < rore> and that rectangle was a few pixel too narrow
18:55 < dooglus> woo!  NOT a synfig bug! :)  who would have guessed?
18:55 < rore> http://home.tele2.fr/auroreblender/divers/splash.sifz is updated 
18:55 < rore> ahaha dooglus ;)
18:55 < pabs3> l0lzor
18:56 < rore> that was a rore's brain bug, looking at the strange set of layers included in the default splash file :)
18:58 < pabs3> hmm, came out a bit different when I rendered it: http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/files/tmp/splash_screen.png
18:59 < rore> maybe just different fonts?
18:59 < pabs3> ya
19:00 < pabs3> do you have the microsoft fonts installed, or just dejavu?
19:00 < dooglus> it has a dependency on ./../../softs/synfig/svnsynfig2/synfig-core/examples/logo.sifz
19:00  * pabs3 will fix that before committing
19:00 < factor> what os in rore using
19:02 < dooglus> I see the same as pabs3 when I render it
19:02 < rore> I think I only have dejavu
19:02 < rore> I don't remember the name of the package with the microsoft fonts
19:03 < rore> factor: Debian Sid
19:03 < pabs3> rore: msttcorefonts
19:04 < rore> ok (I was looking in the "ttf-*" packages). So no msttcorefonts here
19:04 -!- pixelgeek [n=chatzill@c-71-59-140-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #synfig
19:05 < rore> I wonder what's the fallback for Arial and Times new roman, in dejavu, because I do prefer the render from my comp :)
19:05 < pabs3> rore: looks better when I change the fonts to dejavu: http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/files/tmp/dejavu.splash.png
19:06 < pabs3> changed arial to dejavu sans and times to dejavu serif
19:07 < factor> rore cool 
19:09  * pixelgeek doesn't have dejavu
19:11 < rore> So, where's the "Text to BLine" option? Feature request !!!! :D
19:11  * rore hides
19:12 < pabs3> pixelgeek: what does the splash look like if you change the font to dejavu?
19:12 < pixelgeek> I'm guessing it'll default back to arial
19:13 < pixelgeek> I'll have a go at rendering it. 
19:13  * rore is leaving for dinner, see you later
19:14 < pabs3> later rore, thanks for the translation update, splash
19:15 < factor> text to bline would be cool
19:16 < pabs3> only thing about that is you'd have to be more careful of any text in a sif since the outlines could be ripped from some non-free/commercial font
19:17 < pixelgeek> Interesting - I can't even open rore's splash file
19:17 < pixelgeek> Synfig starts up, then vanishes
19:17 < pixelgeek> Probably complaining about missing canvases
19:17 < pabs3> yep, will need to decompress, edit
19:23 < pixelgeek> (Shouldn't stop Synfig from loading though)
19:25 < pixelgeek> Huh - why does rore have a blur under the text?  That won't do anything, will it?
19:26 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host86-147-212-148.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #synfig
19:28 < pixelgeek> And I can't see what the alpha over rectangle is trying to do either...  
19:31 < pixelgeek> changing the fonts to non-existing fonts -> everything defaults to arial
19:31 < pixelgeek> I'll post the renders in a moment.
19:33 < pixelgeek> I think I like it better with Arial/Times
19:40 < pixelgeek> http://home.comcast.net/~pxegeek/synfig/splash.png
19:41 < pixelgeek> http://home.comcast.net/~pxegeek/synfig/splashdejavu.png
19:44 < pabs3> hmmm
19:45 < pabs3> ok, will leave it as arial/times; will be using dejavu on debian anyway
19:46 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:54 < pixelgeek> And of course, the Windows release will have a different splash screen anyway ;)
19:54 < pixelgeek> j/k
19:55 < pabs3> heh
20:03 < CIA-35> synfig: pabs * r1836 /synfig-studio/trunk/ (images/splash_screen.sif src/gtkmm/about.cpp AUTHORS): Add the winner of the February Challenge as the new splash screen!
20:03 < CIA-35> synfig: pabs * r1837 / (6 files in 3 dirs): Releasing 0.61.08!
20:08 < rore> pixelgeek: I did the splash in a rush, so I copied the synfig logo and the text from the official splash - but I removed some parts, that's why there's some strange canvases
20:09 < rore> I tried to remove most of the useless layers, but I guess I failed ;)
20:10 -!- zbgeisz [n=zbgeisz@c-98-204-109-202.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #synfig
20:10 < zbgeisz> Hello, anyone home?
20:11 < rore> interesting, my splash with dejavu ( http://rore.dyndns.org/rore/synfig/splash2.png ) isn't the same as pixelgeek one ( http://home.comcast.net/~pxegeek/synfig/splashdejavu.png )
20:11 < rore> hi zbgeisz 
20:11 < zbgeisz> Hi.  Has anyone had any success building under the Mac OS X native GTK?
20:12 < rore> pixelgeek: it seems the font for "STUDIO" used on your dejavu splash is a sans-serif one. That is *so* wrong ;)
20:12 < pixelgeek> rore: I dont have dejavu anything, so it all defaults to arial
20:12 < pabs3> zbgeisz: there is a wiki page for how to do it, see the link on the build instructions page
20:12 < rore> pixelgeek: ah, ok, that explains :)
20:13 < pabs3> bah, forgot to bump the ETL version dependency
20:13 < pixelgeek> zbgeisz: In answer to your question, I think a couple of people have managed it
20:13 < zbgeisz> I've been following the wiki--still isn't working.  synfig-core builds fine, but studio fails with a lot of errors related to value.h.
20:14 < zbgeisz> I have built it successfully under X11, though.
20:14 < pixelgeek> I think MangoFusion is a Mac user, as is htodd.  
20:14 < pixelgeek> But I don't know if they're compiling natively
20:15 < pixelgeek> rore: good supper?
20:16 < rore> yep, thanks for asking ;)
20:16 < pixelgeek> I guess XP doesn't come with MSTTcorefonts....  :)
20:17 < pixelgeek> Can't decide what I'm going to have for lunch - not too many options in the house.
20:18 < pixelgeek> stale pizza, pasta or something from the freezer,
20:18 < pabs3> pixelgeek: MSTTcorefonts is just Arial, Times, Courier/etc
20:18  * pabs3 kicks CIA-35 
20:18 < CIA-35> ow
20:19 < pixelgeek> So where does dejavu come in?
20:19  * pixelgeek gives CIA-35 a hug
20:20 < pixelgeek> Ah Google, whatever would we do without you
20:20 < pabs3> on linux when you don't have arial installed, it uses dejavu sans, times it uses dejavu serif
20:21 < CIA-35> synfig: pabs * r1838 /synfig-studio/trunk/README: Woops, add Aurore D to the copyright holders.
20:21 < CIA-35> synfig: pabs * r1839 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Woops, forgot to bump versions for the dependencies on ETL and synfig.
20:24 < rore> pixelgeek: lasagnas \o/ :)
20:25  * pixelgeek drools
20:25 < pabs3> zbgeisz: can you pastebin the errors?
20:25 < zbgeisz> They're really long.  :)  hang on...
20:26 < pabs3> zbgeisz: this was with svn, or the last release?
20:26 < zbgeisz> It occurs with both.  Tried SVN first.
20:30 < zbgeisz> pabs3: here's the pastebin: http://pastebin.com/m6c33c491
20:30 < zbgeisz> That one is from the 0.61.07 tarball.
20:33 < pabs3> weirdness
20:33 < dooglus> did you install synfig headers into /opt/gtk/include?  or are they old versions?
20:33 < pabs3> which g++ version?
20:34 < zbgeisz> pabs3: 4.0.1
20:34 < zbgeisz> dooglus: everything was installed using --prefix=/opt/gtk
20:35 < zbgeisz> and synfig core was also 0.61.07
20:45 < htodd> released?
20:45 < htodd> (time to update the fink port?)
20:46 < zbgeisz> htodd: you're on OS X?
20:46 < pabs3> htodd: not quite, building studio now
20:47 < htodd> ok
20:47 < htodd> zbgeisz: yes
20:47 < pabs3> htodd: will ping you when its all uploaded
20:47 < zbgeisz> are you using X11 or the native GTK+ port?
20:47 < pabs3> pixelgeek: same for you
20:47 < htodd> pabs3: ok, thanks
20:47 < htodd> zbgeisz: X11
20:47 < zbgeisz> htodd: ok, never mind :)
20:48 < pabs3> MangoFusion: any idea about zbgeisz' pastebin? http://pastebin.com/m6c33c491
20:48 < pabs3> hmm, I need more ram if I'm gonna build synfig with -j2 
20:49 < pabs3> cc1plus can take like 18% of my ram at times
20:53 < factor> I am having the etl problem again, I guess with pkgconfig , how do I get past that in compiling
20:54 < factor> oh wait its asking for 4.11
20:54 < factor> I just have 4.10
20:54 < factor> that owuld be it
20:54 < factor> :D
20:55 < dooglus> factor: pabs3 increased the version number an hour or so ago
20:55 < factor> DHO
20:55 < factor> :D
20:55 < dooglus> factor: so you'll need to re-install ETL
20:55 < factor> yeah thats it just got get the new version just read the minor ver rev
20:57 < pabs3> whee, its 5am!
21:02 < pixelgeek> Thought you were up early!
21:02  * pixelgeek now realizes pabs hasn't got to bed yet
21:03 < pabs3> correct :)
21:05 < pabs3> bugger, news files aren't indented properly
21:05 < pabs3> meh, too late now
21:06 < pabs3> htodd: all uploaded
21:06 < pabs3> pixelgeek: all uploaded
21:09 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
21:09 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
21:09 < pabs3> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=144022
21:14 < MangoFusion> errm
21:14  * MangoFusion reads back
21:14 < pabs3> I'll finish of http://synfig.org/Release tomorrow, gotta crash. feel free to do any if it folks
21:14  * pabs3 zzz
21:14 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:14 < zbgeisz> nite pabs3
21:14 < MangoFusion> after a quick look, looks like one of those -fpermissive issues
21:15 < zbgeisz> MangoFusion: have you successfully built it under native GTK+?
21:15 < MangoFusion> i did a while back
21:16 < MangoFusion> i suspect it will work a lot better now
21:16 < MangoFusion> only problem is
21:16 < MangoFusion> there's no real official sdk for it so you have to build it yourself using jhbuild & co
21:17 < MangoFusion> i plonked instructions on the wiki too
21:17 < zbgeisz> that's what my problem is.  :)  the jhbuild, etc. is what gave me that pasteboard error.
21:17 < zbgeisz> under X11 it works fine.
21:17 < MangoFusion> what about the x11 build?
21:17 < MangoFusion> weird
21:18 < MangoFusion> only suggestion would be there is something funky with gtk quartz
21:18 < zbgeisz> yeah, I don't get it.  That's my conclusion as well, but I'll be darned if I can figure out the exact problem.
21:18 < MangoFusion> i hate gcc errors; they are so vague and unhelpful
21:18 < MangoFusion> one of the many reasons why i don't really code in c++ anymore ;)
21:19 < zbgeisz> I'm going to try building something else under Imendio's GTK+ and see if it works.
21:24 -!- zbgeisz_ [n=zbgeisz@c-98-204-109-202.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #synfig
21:24 -!- zbgeisz [n=zbgeisz@c-98-204-109-202.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:31 -!- factor [n=factor@ip68-14-160-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #synfig
21:37 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
21:37 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
21:37 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
21:37 -!- zbgeisz_ is now known as zbgeisz
21:43 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
21:43 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
21:43 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
21:46 < Yoyobuae> another experiment splicing blines together: http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/bline_attached_2sections.sifz
21:56 -!- genete [n=Genete@84.122.52.28.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #synfig
21:56 < genete> hola ;)
21:56  * factor churns away compiling
21:57 < factor> rore won
21:58 < factor> ahh that is cool just seeing that synfig mkae pdf doc
21:58 < factor> makes even
21:59 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
21:59 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
22:00 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
22:00 < Yoyobuae> genete: hola. =)
22:00 < Yoyobuae> have a look: http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/bline_attached.sifz =)
22:00 < genete> I've just arrived from a busy weekend... catching logs =)
22:00 < factor> how big of logs
22:00 < factor> whole tree
22:01 < Yoyobuae> from the weekend i suppose
22:01 < genete> (now say that genete talks a lot) ;)
22:02 < rore> genete: you talk a lot ! :p
22:02 < rore> (well, maybe not that much in fact ^^)
22:02 < genete> :P
22:02 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:03 < genete> I'm spanish and from the southern part... cannot avoid it ;)
22:03 < factor> southerner
22:04 < genete> shouth of the southerner part of spain... 
22:04 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has joined #synfig
22:04 < rore> eheh :) The French from the south of France are said to talk a lot, now I'm affraid to think about the Spanish from the south of Spain ;)
22:06 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has quit [Client Quit]
22:07 < genete> rore: congratulations!!! (and move the "synfig" text please!!!)
22:07 < Yoyobuae> she did, keep reading =)
22:07 < genete> :)
22:09 < rore> genete: and I agree, that looks better with a little space between the 2 words
22:13 -!- rubikcube [n=kvirc@dslb-088-070-027-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies"]
22:17 < factor> make[2]: *** [installer_logo.png] Error 9    : I have a problem compiling with this line
22:23 -!- ZanQdo [n=Daniel@201.201.2.22] has joined #synfig
22:23 < factor> not finding any png's
22:23 < factor> does it make the png from sifs
22:23 < factor> or suppose to
22:25 -!- MangoFusion [n=jamesu@host86-147-212-148.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Not here"]
22:27 < factor> out of sync
22:27 < factor> just ran the binary
22:27 < factor> libsynfig is siff
22:32 < genete> Yoyobuae: quite interesting
22:35 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:36 < genete> pabs3, dooglus and all synfig contributors: Congratulations!!!!
22:36 < genete> But I think there is a missing step :(
22:37 < genete> something unforgivable....
22:39 < genete> Celebrate with a nice $BEVERAGE_OF_CHOICE !!!
22:40 < factor> heh
22:41 < rore> ahah :)
22:42  * genete rebuilding now :)
22:43 < factor> re rebuilding
22:43 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
22:43 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
22:43 < factor> had to apt-get remove deb libsynfig
22:45 < Yoyobuae> genete: export BEVERAGE_OF_CHOICE=soda(orange flavor)
22:45 < Yoyobuae> there we go =)
22:45 < genete> Cheers!!
22:46  * rore hesitates between coffee, irish coffee or dark beer
22:47 < factor> cherry coke here.
22:47 < rore> maybe lemon tea, too, because my throat feels a bit sore
22:48 < factor> already had flu here
22:48 < factor> no mas
22:48 < zbgeisz> bye all--if I make any progress on building for native OS X I'll let you know.
22:48 < factor> nifty ok
22:48 < genete> rore: be careful, coffe can have rest of tea from the experiments from the other day ;)
22:49 -!- zbgeisz [n=zbgeisz@c-98-204-109-202.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit []
22:49 < rore> genete: no no no, I didn't took part in those experiments, I mean, mixing tea with coffee ... bleah :D
22:50 < genete> xD
22:50 < factor> heh
22:59 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
22:59 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
22:59 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
23:00  * pixelgeek will raise a glass of Guinness to Rore later on tonight.
23:01  * rore will raise a cup of tea for pixelgeek :)
23:02 < pixelgeek> Oooh - actually even better!  Only about an hour to tea time!
23:02 < rore> (because in fact, I drank enough beers at fosdem - that is, 3, but that a lot for me- , so no more beer now
23:03 < rore> that's*
23:03 < pixelgeek> That would be a lot for me these days too...
23:04 < rore> (3 is more than what I drink in a whole year, in general :) )
23:04 < pixelgeek> And Guinness was always tough to drink in volume 
23:05 < pixelgeek> I think my record at Uni was 5 but that was spread over a very long evening...
23:05 < factor> yeah most i drink is 3
23:05 < genete> he he Czechs are proud to be the country with the higher amount of beer percapita and year...  Now we know the real reason why dooglus live there...
23:05  * pixelgeek says 'kitten - quit jogging my elbow'
23:05 < factor> heh
23:05 < rore> heheheh :)
23:06 < pixelgeek> Can't figure if she wants affection or a door opened
23:06 < genete> or maybe that record comes since he lives there...
23:06  * genete hides
23:06 < pixelgeek> Or just wants to bug me
23:07 < pixelgeek> Huh - that's all I'm good for - opening the door. 
23:07 < rore> pixelgeek: I guess that like most cat, she wants to be the center of attention :)
23:08 < pixelgeek> She's actually very undemanding - not much of a lap cat, although she is slowing down.
23:08 < pixelgeek> She's out now, enjoying the sunshine
23:09 < pixelgeek> And I need to get back to my work while studio compile churns.
23:09 < factor> churning here too
23:10  * rore discovers that the verb to churn can be used for other things that milk-related topics :)
23:10 < factor> yup
23:10 < factor> synmilk
23:28 -!- Yoyobuae [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:33 < dooglus> genete: I was looking at the stuff you wrote about 'duplicating a keyframe'
23:33 < dooglus> http://synfig.org/Keyframe#Duplicate_a_keyframe
23:33 < genete> hi dooglus, nice to see you again :)
23:33 < dooglus> genete: it doesn't seem right that duplicating a keyframe makes TCB waypoints if the default interpolation type is something else - what do you think?
23:34 < genete> let me check what I wrote...
23:37 < genete> I think that keyframes have its own interpolation default value defined by the keyframe properties dialog
23:37 < dooglus> genete: did you ever try that dialog?  it seems to set waypoints if you use it
23:37 < genete> yes
23:38 < genete> it is like a "set all the waypoints to be that interpolation"
23:38 < dooglus> right
23:38 < dooglus> I wonder whether duplicating a keyframe should use the default interpolation method for new waypoints it needs to create
23:39 < dooglus> rather than using the interpolation method of the waypoints on the old keyframe if they exist and TCB if they don't
23:40 < genete> use the interpolation method of the waypoints of the old keyframe must be mandatory
23:40 < genete> if they exists
23:40 < dooglus> really?
23:41 < genete> when I duplicate a keyframe I want also the intepolation method if I stablished it.
23:41 -!- Yoyobuae_ [n=Yoyobuae@201.224.135.156] has joined #synfig
23:41 < genete> other thing is the new waypoints needed to keep the value of the parameter
23:41 -!- Yoyobuae_ is now known as Yoyobuae
23:42 < dooglus> genete: I was thinking about that
23:42 < genete> more even: why do we insert a waypoint if the original keyframe doesn't have it?
23:42 < dooglus> in general, what a waypoint does is sets the value of a parameter at a time to be a valuenode.  it's almost always a constant valuenode (unless you're Yoyobuae), but in general it is animated
23:43 < dooglus> genete: because we need to make sure the parameter has the same value at both keyframes
23:44 < genete> but it be possible that the original keyframe don't have a waypoint there and maybe never have one. 
23:45 < genete> for example: duplicate a keyframe far away having other keyframes in the middle. The duplicated keyframe maybe can add a waypoint to a parameter that the original keyframe doesn't have.
23:46 < dooglus> yes, that's to make sure the new keyframe has the same value for that parameter as the keyframe being copied does
23:47 < dooglus> if the value already happens to be the same, maybe it shouldn't be done, I don't know
23:48 < Yoyobuae> one question though, what is the intended use of keyframes?  we need the purpose of keyframes clear to really get some answers
23:49 < genete> to me keyframes are like poses. 
23:49 < genete> Draw a two beauty poses and synfig makes the rest
23:49 < Yoyobuae> but what's "the rest" =)
23:50 < genete> interpolation
23:50 < genete> tweening
23:50 < Yoyobuae> how the user can have some control over that then
23:51 < Yoyobuae> to me it doesn't look right to create waypoints of arbitrary types, perhaps without the user noticing
23:52 < Yoyobuae> maybe he doesn't want TCBs or even the default
23:52 < Yoyobuae> he wants some parameters behaving one way, and others another way
23:53 < genete> Do it manually. There is no chance with the amount of different layers/parameters we have
23:54 < Yoyobuae> then what's the use of keyframes XD
23:54 < genete> the Keyframe Properties is something that can be used to that
23:54 < genete> a keyframe is a placeholder for fixed valuenodes at a time
23:55 < genete> the interpolation can be aided by studio but at the end is the user who decide
23:55 < genete> the valuenode is the question I think
23:55 < genete> if they are fixed then the keyframe live motif if correct
23:56 < genete> s/if/is
23:57 < Yoyobuae> there are uses for animated or converted valuenodes as values for waypoints
23:59 < Yoyobuae> a walking character for instance. each step is similar. yet the footprints change on each cycle
--- Log closed Mon Mar 03 00:00:00 2008