--- Log opened Sun Mar 23 00:00:42 2008
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00:09 < lesshaste> hi all
00:09 < lesshaste> I am following the basic animation tutorial
00:09 < lesshaste> but where is the "keyframe tab"?
00:16 < lesshaste> found it :)
00:23 < lesshaste> anyone here?
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00:45 < rubikcube> hi
00:46 < rubikcube> it should look somewhat like this http://synfig.org/Keyframes_Panel
00:46 < rubikcube> it's in the lower left part on my system
00:49 < rubikcube> lesshaste: found it?
00:49 < lesshaste> rubikcube: yes tanks
00:49 < lesshaste> synfig is pretty cool
00:50 -!- pixelgeek [n=chatzill@c-71-59-140-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #synfig
00:52 < pixelgeek> evening all!
00:52 < factor> lo pixelgeek
00:53 < pixelgeek> hey factor - how's your opus magnum going?
00:53 < pixelgeek> magnum opus
00:53 < pixelgeek> been a long time since I did Latin
00:53 < factor> getting the final touches on it. no animation that is for sure
00:53 < factor> not until I learn min poly methods better
00:54 < lesshaste> is synfig being actively developed?
00:54 < pixelgeek> lesshaste: Yes
00:54 < factor> no dooglus is on vaction :D
00:54 < pixelgeek> Not very fast, but yes
00:54 < lesshaste> pixelgeek: is there a roadmap or something like that I could see?
00:55 < pixelgeek> (well, not this week, true)
00:55 < factor> heh
00:55 < pixelgeek> There is a roadmap on the wiki somewhere
00:55 < factor> yeah lots of changes , just released a new version last month
00:55 < pixelgeek> dooglus isn't well known for following it
00:55 < pixelgeek> he has been focusing more on fixing crashing bugs
00:56 < pixelgeek> http://synfig.org/Roadmap
00:57 < lesshaste> ah yes.. it's almost entirely empty :)
00:57 < pixelgeek> and more strategically http://synfig.org/Software_roadmap
00:57 < lesshaste> thx
00:57 < pixelgeek> That's cos we just did a big release
00:57 < lesshaste> cool
00:58 < lesshaste> in the short term I just want to make an animation to explain KMP in a presentation :)
00:58 < pixelgeek> You have any programming skills?
00:58 < lesshaste> pixelgeek: some but no time sorry
00:58 < pixelgeek> KMP?
00:58 < lesshaste> Knuth Morris Pratt
00:58 < lesshaste> linear time string matching
00:58 < pixelgeek> Sounds interesting - look forward to seeing the animation!
00:59 < lesshaste> the thing is that I already have the basic image in inkscape
00:59 < lesshaste> so I am trying to work out the easiest way to animate it
00:59 < pixelgeek> Either use bitmaps you created in inkscape, or you could check out the SVG XML transformer
01:00 < lesshaste> ok thx
01:00 < pixelgeek> http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=svg
01:01 < pixelgeek> I haven't had much luck with it, but its author asserts that it works.
01:02 < pixelgeek> Probably better than my efforts to persuade autotrace to output sif files
01:07 < lesshaste> are there competing 2d animation packages?
01:07 < lesshaste> presumably windows has something good?
01:08 < pixelgeek> Yes - Synfig ;)
01:09 < pixelgeek> There are a couple - Moho, 
01:09 < pixelgeek> pencil
01:09 < pixelgeek> Nothing else open source AFAIK
01:10 < pixelgeek> There was some discussion about adding mng support to inkscape
01:11 < pixelgeek> Most people visiting IRC or the forums seem interested in finding an alternative to or way of generating Flash
01:12 < pixelgeek> Ah - here's the page I was looking for - http://synfig.org/Related_Projects
01:12 < lesshaste> pixelgeek: right... that seems like a pain
01:13 < pixelgeek> scratch my previous comment - pencil's open source too.
01:13 < pixelgeek> Ktoon gets quite a lot of mentions
01:14 < lesshaste> I took a look at ktoon
01:14 < lesshaste> it wasn't so obvious how to get started
01:15 < pixelgeek> The same has been said for Synfig ;)
01:15 < lesshaste> but you have  a lovely tutorial :)
01:16 < pixelgeek> When we inherited the code, we has only one tutorial
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01:16 < pixelgeek> everything since then has been a voyage of discovery
01:16 < pixelgeek> It's getting close to your bedtime, isn't it?
01:17 < lesshaste> pixelgeek: ? 
01:17 < lesshaste> pencil looks like it could be fun too
01:17 < pixelgeek> Aren't you in the UK?
01:17 < lesshaste> it even has a ubuntu package
01:17 < lesshaste> I am indeed in the UK
01:17 < lesshaste> where are you?
01:17 < pixelgeek> 11:20pm?
01:18 < pixelgeek> I used to be.  I'm now on the West coast of the USA
01:18 < lesshaste> aha
01:18 < pixelgeek> Born and bred on the south coast - Portsmouth
01:18 < lesshaste> moved for a startup?
01:18 < pixelgeek> Then moved to Brum, then Swindon
01:19 < pixelgeek> No, but I did come over with the same company I was working for in Swindon
01:19 < pixelgeek> Swindon or Silicon Valley - now there's a choice for you!
01:19 < lesshaste> tricky one
01:19 < pixelgeek> What would you choose?
01:20 < lesshaste> I'm allergic to americans :)
01:20 < pixelgeek> You become immune to them.
01:20 < pixelgeek> I can even make myself understood to waiters now...
01:21 < lesshaste> I imagine.. I spent one year in NY and it seemed to be getting worse
01:21 < lesshaste> pixelgeek: words of one syllable?
01:21 < lesshaste> I eventually learnt that people thought I was trying to order a "please", a "may" , a "I", a "have" etc.
01:21 < pixelgeek> "To drink sir? " "I'd like a wadder please"
01:22  * pixelgeek nods - been there too
01:22 < lesshaste> The only way I could do it was to remove all words but the item I wanted
01:22 < lesshaste> "times"
01:22 < lesshaste> "thanks"
01:22 < lesshaste> :)
01:22 < lesshaste> and leave before they try to find a copy of "thanks" magazine for me :)
01:22 < pixelgeek> I think "thanks" is option in NY too, isn't it?
01:23 < lesshaste> indeed :)
01:23 < pixelgeek> Whereabouts in UK are you?
01:23 < lesshaste> there pencil demos are quite cool http://eachmusic.de/animes3.mov
01:24 < lesshaste> s/there/these
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01:28 < lesshaste> pixelgeek: I'm in the far West :)
01:28 < pixelgeek> Wales?
01:28 < pixelgeek> Cornwall?
01:28 < pixelgeek> Ireland?
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01:28 < pixelgeek> the 'pool?
01:29 < pixelgeek> Hey pabs!
01:31 < pabs3> hey pixelgeek 
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01:34 < pabs3> someone kicked out the power on the hub this morning :(
01:35 < pixelgeek> Ow
01:35 < pixelgeek> At least you don't lose any data on the hub when it happens 
01:36 < pabs3> ya
01:38 < pabs3> in practice there is no roadmap - dooglus just works on whatever bug/feature he is interested in at the moment
01:38 < pixelgeek> lesshaste: if you want to see a demo for what you can do with Synfig, I'm slowly putting together a demo reel - here's the Work in Progress
01:38 < pixelgeek> http://www.synfig.com/sdrwip.mpg
01:39 < pixelgeek> (large download)
01:40 < lesshaste> cool
01:40 < pabs3> pixelgeek: pencil is opensource btw
01:40 < lesshaste> got bless broadbad :)
01:40 < pabs3> ah, woops
01:40 < lesshaste> god bless
01:40 < pixelgeek> Keep reading!
01:40 < LinuxO> Do you have some other video with less quality for fast download?
01:41 < lesshaste> pabs3: there is even a ubuntu package :) although it's out of date
01:41 < pabs3> lesshaste: s/Ubuntu/Debian/ - they just copy the debian ones as usual
01:41 < pixelgeek> LinuxO: when it's finished it'll be on Youtube, revver, etc
01:41 < lesshaste> pabs3: ok.. it's not in the repos eitehr sadly
01:41 < LinuxO> revver?
01:41 < LinuxO> there is another place for videos? :P
01:41 < pixelgeek> I didn't want to distribute it too widely until it's done
01:42 < pixelgeek> :P
01:42 < lesshaste> were those images really drawn entirely in synfig?
01:42 < pabs3> lesshaste: I'll soon be setting up daily debs of svn for sid/lenny/etch and hardy/gutsy/dapper for those who want to do testing
01:42 < lesshaste> pabs3: cool!
01:43 < pabs3> gotta move the site/forums to the new server first
01:43 < LinuxO> I'm downloaded 25 megabytes =S
01:44 < pixelgeek> LinuxO: You're a quarter of the way there
01:44 < LinuxO> How you put that there? How many time need you for that?
01:44 < pabs3> pixelgeek: have you tried git-cheetah? I'd like to switch synfig from svn to git sometime, maybe during debconf in August, or earlier if possible
01:44 < lesshaste> pixelgeek: cool video
01:44 < pixelgeek> lesshaste: Yes everything you see is drawn in Synfig
01:44 < LinuxO> pixelgeek, yes, still downloading
01:45 < lesshaste> but what worries me about synfig and so many similar projects is the duplication of effort
01:45 < pixelgeek> pabs3: no I hadn't
01:45 < LinuxO> lesshaste, what duplication?
01:45 < lesshaste> inkscape is very good at drawing images, synfig should focus on the animation but seems to need to reimplement all the drawing primitives too
01:45 < LinuxO> lesshaste, aaah, I agree with that =P
01:45 < pixelgeek> The good news is that the busy time at work is almost over, so I should have a bit more time for my favourite hobby
01:45 < LinuxO> We need an animation program, not a drawing one.
01:45 < lesshaste> LinuxO: is there anything that can be done about it?
01:46 < pixelgeek> One of the most often requested feature is SVG import (and export)
01:46 < LinuxO> I used Gimp with GAP for animation and inkscape for drawing
01:46 < pixelgeek> But we still need someone to volunteer to write it!
01:46 < factor> yuppers
01:46 < lesshaste> LinuxO: when do you use synfig :)
01:47 < LinuxO> lesshaste, I was tried but now I don't have still time =P
01:47 < lesshaste> LinuxO: there must be a lot of svg import code out there.. presumably it's just the synfig specific code that needs to be written
01:47 < LinuxO> When I did it was some hard.
01:47 < pixelgeek> Hey pabs3 - with the new virtual server, would it be possible to run an SVG to SIF converter on the server using the XML converter?
01:48 < pabs3> hmm, I guess so, need to find out if there is some free software that supports XSLT 2.0 - most stuff only uses XSLT 1.0
01:48 < LinuxO> Hey, can someone mix the synfig portion with inkscape just for make an best animation/drawing studio?
01:48 < pabs3> I think SaxonB is in debian now though
01:49 < LinuxO> Or that is already done?
01:49 < lesshaste> pabs3: well inkscape itself must import svg :)
01:49 < LinuxO> I cannot guess things so =P I need to test the new versions of synfig =P
01:50 < pabs3> lesshaste: sure, but it doesn't know about the SIF format (which isn't set in stone like SVG is anyway)
01:50 < lesshaste> pabs3: right
01:50 < lesshaste> whose format is SIF?
01:51 < pixelgeek> Synfig's
01:51 < lesshaste> oh
01:51 < lesshaste> why did you do that? :)
01:51 < pixelgeek> Ah - yes
01:51 < pixelgeek> You'll have to ask darco - the original code developer
01:51 < lesshaste> the acronym is also used as  part of mpeg-1 I see
01:51 < LinuxO> Guys, did you know about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronized_Multimedia_Integration_Language
01:51 < lesshaste> good night all
01:51 < LinuxO> Can you implement that in synfig? And direct working with SVG?
01:52 < pabs3> nite lesshaste :)
01:52 < LinuxO> Not just import and export, native svg support.
01:52 < LinuxO> SVG supports animations too
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01:52 < pabs3> LinuxO: considering we have one developer, and he is on VAC at the moment, probably not until someone volunteers
01:52 < LinuxO> SVG drawings can be dynamic and interactive. Time-based modifications to the elements can be described in SMIL, or can be programmed in a scripting language (e.g., ECMAScript).
01:52 < pabs3> s/VAC/vacation
01:52 < LinuxO> I see =P
01:53 < LinuxO> SVG too supports compression
01:53 < LinuxO> Well, you can compress any svg file :P
01:53 < LinuxO> with bzip or gzip
01:54 < LinuxO> That will be great
01:54 < LinuxO> Because you can run your animations in any browser =P
01:55 < rubikcube> LinuxO: konqueror partly supports animated svg already
01:55 < pixelgeek> LinuxO: Synfig supports more effects than SVG
01:56 < pixelgeek> Not that you couldn't do a minimum implementation
01:56 < LinuxO> rubikcube, yes for that, svg maybe the future reeplacement of flash
01:56 < LinuxO> pixelgeek, ok, then you can work in SVG format or in Synfig format.
01:56 < LinuxO> If you want to do a SVG animation or if you want a more complex one.
01:56 < pixelgeek> Yes.  Can you fix that for us?  
01:56 < pixelgeek> ;)
01:57 < LinuxO> Because here is not SVG animation studios still
01:57 < LinuxO> Maybe I can, when I have time.
01:58 < pixelgeek> You serious?  Let us know if there's anything we can do to help
01:59 < pixelgeek> Hey pabs3 - how's your monster coming along?
01:59 < pabs3> pixelgeek: not started yet - got an idea though
01:59 < LinuxO> I'm programmer
02:00 < LinuxO> We need more people, not?
02:00 < pixelgeek> YES!
02:01 < LinuxO> I understand
02:01 < pixelgeek> SVG support is some shape or form would increase adoption
02:01 < LinuxO> Ok, no problem, but for now I'm very busy.
02:02 < LinuxO> But I will be free because I need to finish some proyects but I'm already done some.
02:02 < LinuxO> Yes and I guess that is not so hard because is an XML file.
02:03 < LinuxO> We can learn from the inkscape source (or some other like program).
02:03  * pixelgeek nods
02:04 < LinuxO> SVG animation is the future for the WWW if we get implement well it in Synfig. Synfig will be the first GUI studio supporting this and will be used all in the world =P
02:04 < pixelgeek> I like your thinking!
02:05 < LinuxO> I don't like Macromedia Flash, I prefer some more stable and functional.
02:05 < pixelgeek> dooglus has implemented a mechanism to save in specific versions of Synfig to support backwards compatibility
02:05 < LinuxO> I plan to use SVG animations in the company website.
02:06 < pixelgeek> I don't see why you couldn't use that to export to SVG instead
02:06 < LinuxO> I mean, in a near future, not right now =P
02:06 < pixelgeek> (once the code is written)
02:06 < LinuxO> pixelgeek, yes, maybe.
02:07 < rubikcube> #ktoon
02:07 < rubikcube> oops
02:07 < LinuxO> =P
02:07 < pixelgeek> Traitor!
02:09 < rubikcube> :-)
02:09 < rubikcube> just trying to make it compile (synfig was _much_ easier)
02:30 < pixelgeek> Aha!  I got the XSLT svg to sif converter working!  
02:30 < pixelgeek> Tiger looks good in Synfig
02:31 < pabs3> cool
02:32 < pabs3> pixelgeek: do you think stuff like the svg2synfig converter belongs in synfig or synfigstudio?
02:32 < pixelgeek> in regards to what? 
02:33 < pixelgeek> svn?
02:33 < pixelgeek> It's kind of its own thing
02:33 < pabs3> yeah, svn
02:33 < pixelgeek> Synfig if I had to choose
02:34 < pixelgeek> 'cos you could convert and render without synfig studio
02:34 < rubikcube> at the moment, rather studio?
02:34 < rubikcube> until you can have svg import layers
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03:29 < rubikcube> well, ktoon seems to be quite dead... good night everyone and happy easter holidays!
03:31 < factor> eating right now
03:31 < factor> finished up my march entry
03:32  * factor going afk
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05:59 < pabs3> factor: haha, awesome!
06:00 < factor> thanks
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08:22 < factor> libmagic allbroked up on debian
08:23 < pabs3> hm?
08:23 < factor> libmagick10
08:23 < factor> upgrading all of sid
08:24 < factor> see if it is still broken
08:24 < pabs3> ah
08:25 < pabs3> almost ready to migrate to the new vps - just need darco to fix some dns issues - ns1/ns2.deepdarc.com are out of sync
08:26 < pabs3> gonna use the new vps as the master and the current vps as the dns slave
08:28 < factor> nice, I only have one serve system so only one dns
08:28 < factor> registar as back up
08:29 < pabs3> what os you using?
08:29 < pabs3> on yr vps I mean
08:30 < factor> debian
08:30 < factor> etch
08:32 < pabs3> ah, cool
09:32 < rore> hello everyone :) (good night for some too, I think :))
09:35 < factor> heh
09:40 < factor> I still cant build synfig core
09:41 < factor> configure.ac:589: error: `dnl' is already registered with AC_CONFIG_FILES.
09:41 < factor> ../../lib/autoconf/status.m4:300: AC_CONFIG_FILES is expanded from...
09:42 < pabs3> factor: sed -i -e 's/^dnl/###/' configure.ac
09:43 < pabs3> factor: which version of autoconf?
09:43 < factor> autoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.61
09:44 < factor> I got nothing back from sed
09:44 < pabs3> shouldn't do, it just modified the configure.ac
09:44 < factor> configure.ac:589: the top level
09:44 < factor> autom4te: /usr/bin/m4 failed with exit status: 1
09:44 < factor> aclocal: autom4te failed with exit status: 1
09:44 < factor> autoreconf: aclocal failed with exit status: 1
09:45 < factor> I am having problems with one lib as well under sidf
09:45 < factor> SID
09:45 < factor>  libdjvulibre21
09:46 < factor>  libmagick10 depends on it I guess
09:46 < factor> I build libmagick from source
09:46 < factor> so I would not need the deb package
09:46 < pabs3> I have a fix for the configure.ac one
09:47 < pabs3> yeah, libdjvulibre21 is stupid - workaround is to dpkg --purge libdjvulibre15, then install imagemagick
09:47 < factor> thanks
09:50 < pabs3> committed the fix, thanks for letting me know :)
09:50 < factor> cool
09:50 < pabs3> <--- stupid to not test changes
09:51 < factor> heh
09:51 < factor> I do that too sometimes
09:51 < factor> lots to do not enough time to test
09:57 < factor> cool got to the next step now
09:58 < factor> when I get a chance I just want to see about adding a simple module to synfig
10:00 < CIA-41> synfig: pabs * r1919 /synfig-core/trunk/configure.ac: Fix SVN r1916: move the commented lines outside of AC_CONFIG_FILES, I should test things better than that!
10:15 < factor> got an error on synfig-core 
10:15 < factor> make[4]: *** [libmod_magickpp_la-trgt_magickpp.lo] Error 1
10:15 < factor> diff version of lib
10:16 < pabs3> can you pastebin the lines before that?
10:16 < factor> yup
10:17 < factor> http://pastebin.com/m3ec608fd
10:18 < pabs3> which GCC version?
10:19 < factor> gcc version 4.2.3 (Debian 4.2.3-2)
10:21 < pabs3> hmm, seeing if I can reproduce
10:22 < factor> k
10:25 < pabs3> ccache is the greatest
10:27 < pabs3> can't reproduce it here
10:27 < pabs3> which version of imagemagick ?
10:28 < factor> 6.3.9-10
10:28 < factor> 2008-03-20
10:30 < pabs3> hmm, seems I should upgrade
10:30 < factor> dho :D
10:31 < factor> it is from source not the debian package
10:31 < pabs3> ahh
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10:36 < genete> hello monsters!
10:36 < factor> lo
10:36 < genete> cool drawings factor !!! he he nice tonge ;)
10:39 < factor> thanks
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16:29 < factor> out
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22:45 < genete> hi
22:50 < pixelgeek> hi genete 
22:51 < pixelgeek> what do I have to do to compile a program?
22:51 < pixelgeek> Make, make install?
22:55 < pixelgeek> I was compiling autotrace, but I've forgotten the recipe
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22:58 < rore> hi everyone
22:58 < rore> pixelgeek: errr, ./configure + what you said? :)
22:59 < pixelgeek> Hi rore
22:59 < pixelgeek> yes ./configure, make make install
22:59 < pixelgeek> I hate undefined references.  :(
22:59 < genete> hi all, sorry got distracted
23:00 < pixelgeek> I'm guessing some path somewhere has gotten fouled up in the 3 months since I last did it.
23:00 < pixelgeek> Maybe time to unpack the original archive and start over.
23:00 < genete> pixelgeek: usually there is a INSTALL.TXT file in the package that tells you the dependences and the compile recipe
23:04 < pixelgeek> aha!  I needed a make clean before starting
23:04 < pixelgeek> success
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23:12 < genete> pixelgeek: I've enjoyed a lot the monster challenge. I forward to know the April theme :D
23:13 < factor> yuppers
23:13 < factor> always fun
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23:21 < pixelgeek> Yes - the monsters was a lot of fun - it meant a lot of different things to different people - even got some new people participating
23:21 < factor> some did not this time either 
23:21 < factor> :(
23:22 < pixelgeek> THere's still some time left
23:22  * genete wonder what happened to ulrik
23:22 < factor> yup
23:22 < pixelgeek> btw factor - I was really impressed with yours
23:22 < genete> I see him at Anime Studio forum but not here :(
23:22 < factor> thanks
23:23 < pixelgeek> I'm open to suggestions for next month's theme
23:23 < factor> I have always wanted to do a cartoon style toon , finaly did it
23:23 < pixelgeek> Maybe a simple animation?  
23:24 < factor> yeah I will go simple next time
23:24 < genete> I suggest to create/invent some props and and obligate to use them
23:24 < factor> yup
23:24 < factor> excellent
23:24 < genete> any prop proposition?
23:25 < pixelgeek> a prop proposal?
23:25 < genete> yup
23:25 < pixelgeek> Yes, we need a proper prop repository
23:25 < factor> truely truely true
23:25 < factor> clip art if you will
23:25 < genete> it can be the forum itself. It admits sifz files
23:26 < pixelgeek> Oh - I remember the other idea I had for a challenge, but I don't know if it's too ambitious
23:26 < pixelgeek> ...
23:27 < pixelgeek> Nursery rhymes
23:27 < factor> that will work
23:27 < pixelgeek> Humpty Dumpty, Jack and Jill....
23:28 < pixelgeek> Cows doing high jump...
23:28 < genete> please be more speciphic for english language dumb like me 
23:29 < pixelgeek> I guess you can make it as complicated or as simple as you want, and viewers can fill in the gaps with what they know of the story
23:29 < factor> ad lib 
23:29 < pixelgeek> genete: pick a nursery rhyme and illustrate it
23:29 < genete> but I don't know english ones :(
23:30 < pixelgeek> THey have nursery rhymes there though, right?
23:30 < factor> http://www.madlibs.com/
23:30 < pixelgeek> You can introduce us to yours 
23:30 < pixelgeek> (and your kids'll probably get a kick out them too)
23:31 < genete> ah ok
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23:34 < genete> I like it!
23:34 < genete> please nursery rhymes yes!!!
23:35 < pixelgeek> OK - remind me when we get to the end of the month and I've forgotten again...
23:37 < genete> sure
23:42 < genete> as you said it is as complicated as you want so everyone can put its own limits.
23:51 < genete> night
23:52 -!- genete [n=Genete@84.122.32.171.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["Abandonando"]
--- Log closed Mon Mar 24 00:00:42 2008