--- Log opened Tue Mar 25 00:00:42 2008
00:02 < genete> patch submitted
00:02 < genete> night all
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02:21 < pixelgeek> Evening Synfiggers!
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03:49 < pabs3> hi pixelgeek 
03:50 < pixelgeek> 'lo
03:50 < pixelgeek> a bit quiet here tonight
03:51 < pabs3> welcome back dooglus !
03:53 < pabs3> genete: icons look good to me
03:54 < pabs3> darco switched over the dns, gonna be doing some migration after that
03:54 < pabs3> s/after that/after I get up/
04:31 < pabs3> http://www.savagechickens.com/blog/2008/03/monsters.html
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05:28 < pixelgeek> I don't know if I don't have enough free time, or other people have too much....
05:28 < pixelgeek> http://gizmodo.com/371253/lego-futurama-fan-set-makes-official-line-a-must
05:30 < pabs3> hah! I'd say the latter
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06:03  * pixelgeek just envious....
06:03 < pixelgeek> time for bed said zebedee....
06:15 < pabs3> nite :)
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09:44  * pabs3 -> beach -> migrating to new vps
09:50 < factor> that would be cool to have a batch synfig for scripting
09:50 < factor> reading the todos
09:51 < factor> * Visual conflict resolution for version control merging conflicts
09:51 < factor> wondering if GIT will or would resolve that
09:52 < factor> git uses the DAG for stuff like that
09:52 < factor> svn and cvs do not
09:53 < factor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_acyclic_graph
09:53 < factor> math behind it.
09:53 < factor> monotone was the first to use it , then linus put it in git
09:54 < factor> I think it would be nice to have a git repo
09:56 < factor> dunno about the visual part . but just does not let it happen , although that is theory, have heard problems still with git
09:57 < factor> does have a gui though
09:58 < factor> http://www.spearce.org/category/projects/scm/git-gui/
10:07 < factor> ok back to sleep
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10:45 < pabs3> nite factor 
10:53 < pabs3> Ok, forums and wiki going down for migration!
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11:24 < pabs3> ok, should be back now, dns should be updated
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11:31 -!- pabs3 changed the topic of #synfig to: http://synfig.org/FAQ | site migrated to Debian vps | synfig 0.61.08 now available from http://synfig.org/Download | March is MONSTER MONTH! http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51 | news: http://synfig.org/News/2008-03-10 http://synfig.org/News/Draft | Ask your question and wait - we will answer it eventually!
11:46 < rore> cool :)
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12:18 < pabs3> woops, forgot to fix the mediawiki math stuff
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13:53 < factor> out
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13:54 < pabs3> hi benG 
13:55 < benG> hi pabs3 
13:56 < pabs3> welcome to #synfig :)
13:56 < benG> I am entering the brave world of intermediate tutorials today
13:56 < pabs3> cool :)
13:57 < pabs3> have you checked out the march challenge? http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51
13:59 < benG> last thing I drew was a flower, not quite there really
14:00 < pabs3> fair enough :)
14:01 < benG> This magnifieing glass tutorial is giving me a headache, doesn't seem to work
14:06 < KiBi> ahah
14:06 < KiBi> A coworker asking me if I eventually know about synfig.
14:06 < KiBi>  - I'm packaging it.
14:06 < KiBi>  - Shoulda known
14:07 < pabs3> :)
14:08 < benG> "Now the radius of the Spherize layer will be connected to the zoom of the encapsuled layer called "magnifying glass", so if you zoom in/out on with it, the spherize layer will follow."
14:08 < benG> done, works
14:08 < KiBi> Do you folks know whether there might be useful to play around with a cluster to render synfig animations?
14:09 < KiBi> s/there/it/
14:09 < benG> "I will also need to connect the origin in the Spherize layer to the origin in the encapsulated layer."
14:09 < benG> can't do it
14:10 < benG> KiBi, why would that not be useful? :)
14:10 < benG> it's fun in Cinelerra
14:10 < KiBi> benG: Well, it's not like I've actually used synfig a lot :)
14:10 < benG> me neither
14:10 < benG> anything where rendering takes time it's useful to make clusterable though
14:10 < KiBi> I guess the rendering is done in sequence from frame A to frame B and that frames are independent?
14:11 < benG> mainly, but not sure how motion blur is handled
14:11 < KiBi> (from each others, I mean)
14:12 < KiBi> pabs3: dooglus: ^^ your views are welcome.
14:12 < KiBi> Nothing urgent anyway, I'm already on blender :-)
14:14 < pabs3> KiBi: I think that would be very useful!
14:17 < KiBi> pabs3: looks like. I was more thinking about the eventual troubles I could run into. :-)
14:17 < KiBi> The idea is to spawn N processes, where N matches #CPU.
14:17 < KiBi> (!= threads, which aren't allowed to migrate between CPUs, yet.)
14:18 < KiBi> That's why I'd like to know whether one can render each frame individually.
14:18 < pabs3> sounds good, only issues might be how to distribute the data
14:18 < pabs3> synfig --time 1.1
14:19 < KiBi> oO
14:19 < KiBi> installing synfig pulled libgtk1.2
14:19 < KiBi> (and libglib1.2 as well)
14:19 < pabs3> boing
14:20 < KiBi> Through libdv-bin
14:20 < KiBi> Dépaquetage de synfig (à partir de .../synfig_0.61.08-2_amd64.deb) ...
14:20 < KiBi> sid/amd64, that is.
14:20 < pabs3> aptitude why foo bar is a good way to determine that stuff
14:21 < KiBi> yeah, but I already had a suspect, and purging it showed me the same info :-)
14:22 < KiBi> and thanks for --time, but still, there might be troubles when assembling the frames later, having to run some tool, or script or whatever :-)
14:22 < pabs3> playdv looks like the culprit
14:22 < pabs3> yeah
14:23 < KiBi> anyway, an eventual additional extra step at the end wouldn't hurt much.
14:23 < benG> <KiBi> That's why I'd like to know whether one can render each frame individually.
14:23 < KiBi> I'm just wondering whether we could demo synfig using such an animation.
14:24 < benG> did we determine if that was indeed the case?
14:24 < pabs3> benG: with synfig --time 1.23
14:25 < benG> ah sorry
14:26 < pabs3> np
14:27 < benG> so one just needs to add a frame for distributing processing of all the necessary frames using their specific times
14:27 < benG> so one just needs to add a framwork for distributing processing of all the necessary frames using their specific times
14:28 < pabs3> yep
14:29 < benG> the Cinelerra rendering is very sophisticated really, the time line is constant re-rendered between chosen points and dished out in batches of frames to other machines in the cluster
14:30 < benG> when the program finds a spot that isn't rendered, it's rendered on the fly
14:30 < benG> it's a bit like having a automatically renewing synfig preview window
14:31 < pabs3> sounds cool
14:31 < benG> it does work pretty well
14:32 < benG> with the concentration on shape manipulation in synfig though, it's not as relevant a strategy, though distributed processing for the preview window would be great
14:33 < KiBi> benG: as long as I can run exec() or fork() that should be quite easy, given our custome kernel.
14:33 < KiBi> -e
14:34 < benG> ah, so you have multiple nodes pretending to be one kernel
14:34 < benG> http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/ or mosix or some such
14:34 < KiBi> benG: Exactly.
14:34 < KiBi> And we can migrate processes between real machines, but not threads yet.
14:35 < KiBi> benG: kerrighed.org
14:36  * benG bookmarks that one!
14:36 < KiBi> The initial setup is quite hmm, interesting, from a challenge point of view.
14:37 < KiBi> But my current goal is to make it easy to create livecd to demonstrate it. :-)
14:37 < benG> I will have a look
14:37 < benG> cool, then I have a look and a play!
14:37 < benG> cool, then I'll have a look and a play!
14:37 < KiBi> (be it by customizing existing ones, or creating them from scratch.)
14:40 < dooglus> the frames are rendered independantly - motion blur inefficiently re-renders each old frame it uses
14:41 < dooglus> synfig --time "1m 2s 3f" works too if you want to specify times like that, rather than as decimal numbers of seconds
14:45 < benG> sorry, noob question, can I change a shapes origin with respect to the shape itself?
14:45 < benG> sorry, noob question, can I change a shape's origin with respect to the shape itself?
14:45  * benG is having a typo day
14:50 < KiBi> pabs3: stupid bap uploaded his package to NEW...
14:50 < KiBi> (djvulibre)
14:51 < pabs3> ohfun
14:51 < KiBi> (for a looks-like-trivial-and-totally-unneeded split that could have waited.)
14:51 < pabs3> benG: not sure if I understand the question
14:52 < pabs3> benG: oh wait, I do. I think the answer is no, but it would be great if I was proven wrong
14:52 < benG> okay, I have a shape, and it has an origin. If I move the origin the shape moves, as you'd expect
14:53 < benG> what I want to be able to do is move the origin to a different place on the shape
14:53 < benG> (this is so I can link to it)
14:53 < benG> I don't really know how the position of a shape's origin is decided
14:54 < pabs3> dooglus: have a good vacation apart from the bruise?
15:00 < pabs3> benG: doesn't look like it is possible
15:00  * pabs3 goes looking at the code
15:03 < benG> for a bit of clarity, I have a set of encapsulated layers which are called "glass" and when selected as the encapsulation, I get a green duck which will move the whole shape
15:03 < benG> but it's not where I want it with respect to the shape
15:04 < benG> with respect to that set of encapsulated layer
15:04 < benG> so how is the postion of that duck decided?
15:07 < pabs3> I don't know, dooglus might be able to tell you though
15:07 < pabs3> gotta go to bed, nite all
15:08 < benG> night pabs3, cheers
15:08 < KiBi> night pabs
15:08 < KiBi> (it's not like it's 3pm here :))
15:09 < benG> where are you KiBi, I'm in the UK
15:09 < benG> 2PM here
15:09 < KiBi> benG: Not that far. Somewhere in the west of France.
15:10 < KiBi> benG: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=fr&geocode=&q=rennes,+france&ie=UTF8&ll=48.107431,-1.669922&spn=10.626071,19.445801&z=6&iwloc=addr
15:10 < KiBi> And in a few hours, I'm back there: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=fr&geocode=&q=dijon,+france&ie=UTF8&ll=47.323931,5.053711&spn=10.786121,19.445801&z=6&iwloc=addr
15:11 < benG> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=bristol,+UK&ie=UTF8&ll=51.454007,-2.592773&spn=3.63533,10.601807&z=7&iwloc=addr
15:12 < benG> argh, I wish I knew the answer to my question
15:12  * benG thinks about joining mail list
15:13 < KiBi> Sorry I 1/ don't know it either; 2/ have to run and catch bus, metro, train, metro, train, car :)
15:13 < KiBi> see ya folks.
15:13 < benG> see ya KiBi 
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16:15 < genete> benG: I have a reply for your question
16:15 < benG> brilliant!
16:16 < genete> when you encapsulate a set of layers the Origin is always set to 0,0
16:17 < benG> okay, but where is that relative to all the encapsulated objects?
16:17 < genete> if you want the encapsulated layers to be (for example) in a determined position in relation to the origin you should have drawn them there
16:17 < benG> aha!
16:18 < benG> or moved them there before I encapsulated
16:18 < genete> I mean, the blines layers have their own Origin paramter called Offset
16:18 < genete> exactly
16:18 < benG> brilliant!
16:18 < genete> then after encapsulate you can move the Origin to the place you want
16:18 < genete> and all the child layers will follow
16:18 < benG> yes
16:18 < benG> cool
16:19 < genete> even, you can link the origin of a paste canvas to other external vertex of other layer
16:19 < genete> and it will follow that vertex
16:19 < benG> you've gone a bit beyond me there!
16:20 < benG> what do mean by a paste canvas, should I look on the wiki for that?
16:21 < genete> paste canvas is the normal name of the result of encapsulate some layers
16:21 < benG> yes, just consulted the wiki and got it
16:21 < benG> cheers
16:21 < genete> you can insert an empty paste canvas too
16:22 < benG> yes, I realized that just now, I could re-encapsulate to get a new origin too
16:22 < genete> yup
16:22 < benG> ooohhh the power mwah mwah mwah!
16:22 < genete> blines layers (region and outline) have its own "Origin" called Offset
16:23 < genete> as well as other layer have a Origin parameter
16:23 < genete> all they start at 0,0
16:24 < genete> oops I'm repeating my self :D
16:25 < benG> yes that 0,0 is very important
16:25 < benG> it seems
16:25 < genete> heh! ;)
16:25 < benG> odd, if I move a set of blines
16:26 < benG> if I move a complete set of blines by dragging them, the origin moves too
16:26 < benG> if I do any less than the full set, it doesn't!
16:27 < genete> you should not be able to select the origin parameter or the ofser parameter
16:27 < genete> if selected you should have done it intentionatelly
16:27 < genete> start over: select all layers and press CTRL-A and drag and see if it works now
16:28 < genete> it wouldn't select the Offset nor the Origin parameter
16:28 < genete> (duck)
16:29 < benG> ah, no you're right, I must have selected it accidentally
16:29 < genete> :)
16:30 < benG> I'm not sure that stuff covered in the wiki, certainly not in any noob bit
16:31 < benG> if I find a relevant section I'll slip it in somehow
16:31 < genete> benG: that means that the wiki is so technical or that there are holes on it?
16:32 < benG> yes, both
16:32 < benG> some of the descriptions are very technical
16:32  * genete has troubles with English language :|
16:32 < benG> the wiki is conscise, there lots of terminology on there too
16:33 < benG> the beginners tutorials are good, but I have only just figured out how to sort out the magnifier glass tutorial since talk to you
16:34 < genete> benG: I've done some work in the wiki lately but don't have enough time. That's a wiki, please complain about it in the discuss page or fix it if you find better words...
16:34 < genete> all help is welcome!!!
16:37 < benG> I'll have a good look at that magnification tutorial, and make sure there is a good discussion of the origin  and 0,0 stuff in there
16:38 < benG> now I have a working magnifying glass
16:38 < genete> yes, we need a more friendly wiki. It is very technical sometimes. Maybe I'm guilty on that or maybe Synfig is so technical...
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16:52 < dooglus> pabs3: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=692616&l=0c68c&id=631646055
16:52 < genete> hey!
16:53 < genete> cold!
16:53 < genete> have more?
16:53 < dooglus> benG: to change a shape's origin with respect to itself, select the shape layer, hit control-a to select all ducks, and drag them.  the origin will stay still and the shape will move
16:58 < dooglus> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=30729&l=c806c&id=631646055
17:00 < genete> very nice!
17:01 < genete> see you later
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18:48 < akagogo> D: yesterday i had synfig 0.67
18:49 < akagogo> but already not
18:49 < akagogo> i will try to install synfig 0.68 again
18:50 < akagogo> but i have problems in synfig-core
19:27 < dooglus> akagogo: what year is it where you are?
19:28 < dooglus> I'm in the 21st century.  we have synfig 0.61 here.  what new features do your people have?
19:29 < dooglus> also, if it's not too much trouble, could you look up the racing results from Saturday 29th March, 2008 please?
19:30 < akagogo> o.o
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19:32 < akagogo> plop
19:37 < akagogo> is ok, i wanted to say synfig 0.61.08 xD
19:57 < dooglus> darn it
19:58 < dooglus> what kind of problems?
20:04 < akagogo> i couldn't compile synfig-core
20:04 < akagogo> error in mod-particles
20:05 < akagogo> but i downloaded the source again and already is ok
20:05 < akagogo> now, i'm compiling synfigstudio
20:10 < akagogo> a question, can i use anjuta-ide to compile synfig? or other ide o.o
20:10 < akagogo> i need colors in the code :D
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20:56 < dooglus> akagogo: I use GNU Emacs as my IDE.  It does colored code
20:57 < dooglus> http://dooglus.rincevent.net/random/emacs.png
21:04 < akagogo> ok thx :D
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21:17 < MangoFusion> looks great
21:17 < MangoFusion> never gotten into emacs myself
21:17 < MangoFusion> more of a vim guy myself
21:18 < MangoFusion> though then again most of the time these days i use a simple text editor
21:18 < MangoFusion> eek
21:19 < rore> eekmacs ? :)
21:19 < MangoFusion> no i was just going "eek!" as in its not good for my sanity
21:20 < dooglus> I've never really got into vim
21:20 < dooglus> I used to use vi before I discovered Emacs, before vim was around
21:21 < dooglus> maybe if vim was around then I wouldn't have switched, but I don't know
21:22 < dooglus> it can be hard getting things fixed in Emacs
21:22 < dooglus> about 3 months ago I reported a bug that Emacs won't open *.JPG files, only *.jpg.  my phone always uses uppercase filenames
21:23 < dooglus> a 34-message thread on the developer list resulted, arguing about the best way of fixing this
21:23 < dooglus> then today, when I went to take more photos off my phone, I notice that the bug still hasn't been fixed :)
21:23  * rore opens her jpg and JPG in images editing program only ;)
21:23 < rore> ahah :)
21:23 < dooglus> I only wanted to view them
21:24 < dooglus> I tend to use Emacs as my file manager
21:24 < rore> then I use gthumb, that has the bad habit of crashing often, resulting in a lot of "defunct" entries when I run ps
21:25 < rore> as long as you don't use emacs as your OS ... :D
21:26 < dooglus> if I want to flick through a lot of images quickly, I'll use gqview
21:26 < dooglus> but to just open a single image, it's easier to use Emacs
21:27 < dooglus> I've never had gqview crash - maybe it's worth a try?
21:27 < rore> yep, I should get rid of gthumb, but I still like it somehow 
21:28 < rore> and I never though of opening images with emacs before :)
21:34 < CIA-41> synfig: dooglus * r1920 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/canvasview.cpp: Fix 1914874: update the timeline scrollbars' major step size when zooming time in and out.
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21:46 < rubikcube> moin
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22:17 < genete> hello
22:29 < genete> dooglus: I've sent a patch for some new icons. 
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 26 00:00:42 2008