--- Log opened Thu Feb 05 00:00:37 2009
00:20 < genete> 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0 .. bedtime :)
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10:13 < yookter_> hi, i installed synfigstudio yesterday, and I need to know if it's possible to use it for had drawn (Draw Tool) frame-by-frame animations, e.g. without using interpolation.
10:15 < rubikcube> uh, wasn't there another application that's specifically for that kind of animation?
10:16 < yookter_> ktoon you mean?
10:17 < yookter_> yes , ktoon does it, but it does not work on vectors
10:17 < rubikcube> maybe ktoon, yes
10:17 < yookter_> and I need scalable animations...
10:17 < yookter_> so, synfingstudio can't, right?
10:18 < rubikcube> a new image each frame without interpolation?
10:19 < yookter_> exactly
10:19 < rubikcube> it can if you manually disable the interpolation :) But I don't think it allows an easy workflow, no
10:19 < pabs3> pencil is better for frame-by-frame
10:19 < pabs3> check the related projects wiki page for a link
10:19 < rubikcube> ah, it probably was pencil, yes
10:19 < yookter_> I know them all, but
10:20 < yookter_> what I'm thinking I lack is a tool with a grid-style timeline
10:20 < yookter_> where x is time and y layer stack
10:20 < yookter_> and, most important thing
10:21 < yookter_> the ability to copy data from/to "blocks" (layer*frame)
10:22 < yookter_> I didn't find anything to do this, that I think is essential for a good workflow in frame-by-frame animation
10:22 < rubikcube> I never tried pencil, but can't it do that?
10:23 < yookter_> well, i tried the mac version yesetrday, and it doesn't
10:23 < yookter_> i'm going to try linu build now
10:23 < yookter_> x
10:24 < rubikcube> unlikely that the linux build is different, but maybe more experienced users or devs know a trick to do it that's not obvious
10:24 < yookter_> you're right
10:26 < yookter_> by the way: what should I use to concatenate an image sequence to movie? I use ffmpeg on cli, but is it there any gui app?
10:28 < pabs3> winff is a gui frontend to ffmpeg, that might work
10:28 < pabs3> otherwise one of the video editors can prob do it
10:29 < yookter_> tnx
10:31 < yookter_> yes! with pencil I can copy/paste frame contents!
10:33 < rubikcube> nice :)
10:33 < rubikcube> and many free animation / video editing programs just use ffmpeg internally
10:33 < yookter_> anyway i'm really impressed by synfigstudio, it's better than Flash on vector control
10:34 < yookter_> ok, i'll report any cool thing done with synfig that I will publish! bye
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11:41 < pabs3> I'm seeing an increase in the number of mail bounces on the synfig server, I think spammers are signing up for the forum with invalid email addresses
11:44 < pabs3> hmm, or attempting to anyway
12:19 < pabs3> http://lwn.net/Articles/317154/
12:19  * pabs3 hugs git bisect
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12:47 < rore> hm yeah, I was almost surprised that this forum wasn't hit by spam earlier 
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15:40 < Yoyobuae> hello everyone! =D
15:40 < Yoyobuae> it has been a while xD
15:41 < Zelgadis> Hey, Yoyobuae! Long time no see!
15:41 < Yoyobuae> yeah, been a bit busy with my first job and everything
15:41 < Yoyobuae> and getting used to Debian Linux
15:41 < pabs3> :D
15:42 < pabs3> what were you using before that?
15:42 < Zelgadis> Hi, pabs3 
15:42 < pabs3> hey
15:42 < Yoyobuae> Windows XP  on my home PC
15:43 < Yoyobuae> but now I love Linux =D
15:43 < pabs3> great :)
15:44 < Yoyobuae> i love doing stuff with a terminal 
15:45 < Yoyobuae> having 4 desktops is also a very nice feature =)
15:49 < Yoyobuae> have you guys seen Crayon Physics?
15:50 < Yoyobuae> its an amazing game 
15:50 < pabs3> screenshots only
15:51 < Yoyobuae> oh, no videos?
15:52 < Yoyobuae> the game's interface is pretty clever
15:52 < Yoyobuae> just draw everything xD
15:53 < Yoyobuae> the game recognized certain specific shapes, and treats them differently
15:54 < Yoyobuae> an interface like that could prove VERY useful for tools like synfig ;)
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16:08 < rubikcube> or http://www.phunland.com
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16:15  * genete filling the /www.trophees-du-libre.org form
16:16 < Zelgadis> hi, genete!
16:16 < Zelgadis> great!
16:16 < genete> hey
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16:17 < genete> for "Other similar projects" I'll write: we are currently unaware of any other software that can do what our software can.
16:17 < genete> hey Yoyobuae :)
16:17 < pabs3> http://anim2000.sourceforge.net/
16:17 < Yoyobuae> hey
16:19 < genete> pabs3: is it almost dead, should I add it to similar projects?
16:20 < pabs3> nope, just noticed it while browsing the intertubes
16:24 < pabs3> genete: the reviewboard bug is fixed, waiting on an upgrade of the Debian package
16:25 < genete> ok, thanks for the info
16:26  * pabs3 off to bed, later
16:29 < Yoyobuae> genete: have seen that "Crayon Physics" game?
16:31 < genete> Yoyobuae: yeah, there are several ones spread on internet. Do you know Phun?
16:31 < genete> http://www.phunland.com/wiki/Home
16:37 < Yoyobuae> phun = wow! xD
16:38 < rore> "intertubes" ... I love that word :D (and hi hi people)
16:39 < Zelgadis> hi, rore 
16:39 < genete> yeah, intertubes are plenty of artifacts ;)
16:39 < rore> EXACTLY
16:40 < rore> oops, -caps
16:47 < rore> also, I'm at a loss with bones... Were they included in synfig in some way, or is it still being worked on? 
16:47 < rore> I really lost track of what was happenning in the development
16:47 < genete> seriously, what should I put on "Other Similar Projects"? Inkscape, Blender, none?
16:48 < Zelgadis> Inkscape, Blender
16:48 < genete> rore: bones exists only in git. It is unfinished. 
16:48 < rore> Inkscape and Ktoon. Blender is really 3D and all, I won't call it similar even if it allows animations
16:48 < rore> but that's just my opinion 
16:48 < genete> Ktoon allows vectors?
16:48 < rore> genete: ok. No need for me to search them then ^^
16:49 < genete> because pencil allows vectors in such way
16:49 < rore> I remember that ktoon was vector, but I may be wrong
16:49 < genete> Pencil, Ktoon, Inkscape.
16:50 < rore> because the problem is that their website is out of order for a lonnnng time now ( http://ktoon.toonka.com/ )
16:50 < genete> oww!
16:50 < genete> what a pity! :'(
16:51 < Yoyobuae> genete: any example videos of "bones"?
16:51 < rore> hmm, yeah, not sure that ktoon is vector, indeed. And the last release seems to be from mid-2007 ... 
16:51 < genete> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNOPR_1UAz0
16:52 < genete> and some others in mediafire
16:53 < genete> http://www.mediafire.com/?ntevtnxbp9d
16:55 < rore> well, I expected to use bones for the stickman anim. But maybe not, then ^^
16:55 < Yoyobuae> genete: that's ok, i googled the links ;)
16:55 < genete> for the stick man just use your left part of your brain :)
16:55 < genete> Yoyobuae: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?xtjtzgmydx1
16:56 < genete> The "Project Principle" in the form to fill is quite big, Are we saying so few things?
16:57 < genete> Maybe I can add this?: "2D Animation has traditionally been very expensive because every frame must be drawn by hand. Even with today's digital inking and painting software, the process still relies on individuals hand-drawing each frame. This laborious task is called "tweening". Synfig eliminates the task of manual tweening, producing smooth, fluid motion without the animator having to draw out each frame individually. This allows you to pro
16:59 < rore> well, in the french version it is "Principe general", that's "Overall principle". No idea why they replaced the "overall" with just "project". 
17:01 < genete> Yoyobuae: bones development has been stopped mainly for two reasons: 1) dooglus laptop died, 2) Inverse manipulation of blinepoints under bone influence became not easy to code. 
17:01 < rore> well, maybe you can add a very quick sentence about the automatic tweening/interpolation, but I really really don't like the commercial blah blah
17:02 < Yoyobuae> genete: so when a blinepoint is attached to a bone, there's no way to edit it?
17:02 < genete> it is under a convert type
17:02 < genete> it needs code for reverse manipulation
17:03 < genete> but I don't know how to do it and dooglus is depressed to continue researching with his dead laptop
17:04 < genete> even without the needed aid tools (for automatize the binding of the points to the bones), just having the reverse manipulation would make current bones usable
17:04 < rore> genete: "Synfig allows interpolation between frames, thus eliminating the need to draw each frame by hand and producing smooth and fluid motion easily." ??? Shorter and less "commercial"
17:05 < genete> rore: sounds good
17:05 < genete> I'll add it to the form
17:05 < rore> Arghh... I did it. I put an "allows" inside. Dunno if that's only a French bad habit or if other people also over-use that 
17:05 < Yoyobuae> genete: ill need to compile and play with bones, to see how they work for myself
17:05 < genete> Yoyobuae: http://repo.or.cz/w/synfig.git
17:06 < genete> my branch is the most updated (well only a comment in the bug tracker)
17:06 < Yoyobuae> ok
17:06 < genete> Your help is fully appreciated :)
17:07 < rore> (I mean, I remember writting some text describing something, and almost all sentences were "It allows this, it allows that." -- hence my reaction to that verb. Sorry for the little off-topic)
17:07 < genete> rore: your short description is perfect, don't allow that the "allow" word shames you! :)
17:10 < genete> other casting I did: http://www.mediafire.com/?uwddwglfhym and http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ntevtnxbp9d
17:11 < genete> Yoyobuae: when you have the code and installed it ask me how to use :)
17:13 < rore> yesterday I was trying to set the vertex param so that 2 vertices can't be farther away than a certain distance. Result: FAIL XD
17:14 < genete> rore, one from the other or both from a fixed point?
17:14 < Yoyobuae> genete: i'll compile/install later, im at work now =).
17:14 < rore> one from the other
17:14 < rore> but well, I didn't try hard
17:16 < genete> Yoyobuae: sure. I'll here as much time as I can. Contact me at genetita at gmail dot com if I'm offline. You can add that email to your favourite IM client. I'm always connected when in front of the PC.
17:16 < genete> rore: Hmmm, one form the other... I'll take a look
17:17 < genete> rore: so the distance is 2D distance (radius), right?
17:18 < rore> yes, "2D" distance
17:19 < rore> the sqrt( (x-X)² +(y-Y)² ) kind
17:19 < genete> ok
17:20  * Zelgadis is away: Not here
17:21 < genete> rore: what should happen if you drag one of them far from the maximum distance?
17:21 < genete> the other follows or it stops at the edge of the distance?
17:21 < rore> genete: I wish it would stop at the edge distance
17:22 < rore> but, anyway, that's the kind of thing that should be easy with a bone I think. But a little complex at the moment
17:23 < Yoyobuae> rore: from what I recall, the code for "ducks" would need modification for that
17:24 < genete> rore: you're looking for that due to stick man animation?
17:24 < genete> but you can use the cut out technique but using vectors instead of images!
17:24 < rore> yep ^^
17:25 < rore> cut out ?
17:25 < genete> http://synfig.org/Cut-out_Animation ;)
17:25 < genete> it can be even easier to setup
17:26 < genete> than a convert type that looks recursive loop to me :)
17:27 < rore> ah yep, I forgot about that. Will look
17:28 < rore> ow, rotate layers overuse. Hmm... well, not sure I'll use that then ^^. I'm gonna do all by hand, lalalaaa
17:28 < genete> uh! form is already filled. I've added the RoadMap mind map for the needed help (wanted features and needed fixes)
17:29 < rore> ok 
17:29 < genete> rore: yeah, IK is the most important feature for the bones, after reverse manipulation of the blinepoints bone influenced :)
17:29 < genete> should I press "Send" :)
17:30 < genete> ?
17:30 < genete> "Submit" I mean
17:30 < rore> yeah, unless you want another person to review that a last time?
17:30 < genete> I've only added the mind map to the form, and your latest fine sentence.
17:31 < genete> Just the English review is needed though
17:33 < rore> hm, yes, so just wait for some english speaking person to be online there, and then hassle him untill he proofread the text ? ;)
17:34 < genete> ok, I'll save the modifications to the forum. I can wait to the last day and produce more impact to the jury :-P
17:34 < genete> in a rore's style :P
17:34 < Yoyobuae> what are you guys working on?
17:35 < genete> http://www.trophees-du-libre.org/
17:35 < genete> we are trying to present synfig to that
17:35 < rore> and make a nice looking and error free text ^^ 
17:36 < genete> I added this: "This mind map has a full list of the needs: http://www.mind42.com/pub/mindmap?mid=04afc25d-b337-483b-bba4-fdbe4de6327e"
17:37 < genete> Yoyobuae: http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2302#p2302
17:37 < rore> well, maybe the simple list (even if it lacks items) was a better idea, because I don't know if what's in the mind-map will make sense to people that are not inside the project.
17:38 < rore> (although I like that mind map)
17:38 < genete> this is what I want to say: Contributions : Needs to add sound support, complete bone system (under development), complete OpenGL rendering (under development), GUI rework, native SVG import (under development), Bug fixes. This mind map has a full list of the needs: http://www.mind42.com/pub/mindmap?mid=0 ... be4de6327e
17:40 < rore> hmm, should be ok. 
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18:55 < genete> rore: http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2327#p2327
18:56 < rore> ahah, nice one genete :D
18:56 < genete> you can use the sticky man four your animations
18:57 < genete> and can change it and add a dress and make a sticky girl
18:57 < rore> well, I want it to be able to bend himself, and have his arms being sorter as if he's moving in 3D
18:57 < rore> I think I'm looking for something too complex :D
18:57 < genete> well, it is juts a point tweaking
18:57 < genete> don't need to deprecate point motion :)
18:58  * rore wanted to make a guitar player
18:59 < rore> that goes headbangging (sp?) and all :)
19:00 < rore> (ahahaha the youtube "recomended for you" part. Tracy Chapman and Dimmu Borgir side by side :] )
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20:04 < genete> pixelgeek, dooglus, pabs or any English native speaker, would you mind to correct the proposed text to fill the form for the contest?
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 06 00:00:43 2009