--- Log opened Sun Feb 15 00:00:35 2009
00:03 < vonHalenbach> I don't know. I think you should ask Uiomae tomorrow.
00:04 < timonator> i believe i should.
00:04 < timonator> a friend who is much, much, much more skilled than me currently convinces me, that speed gain can happen
00:07 < vonHalenbach> I think blenders gui is completly in openGL. No?
00:08 < vonHalenbach> Maybe we should ask a developer of blender?
00:08 < timonator> i don't think, that the gui of blender is very interesting here
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01:08 < Uiomae> timonator: I'm the guy implementing GL here
01:08 < Uiomae> improvements are really possible
01:08 < Uiomae> and already happening :)
01:09 < timonator> what parts do you replace with an opengl implementation?
01:10 < Uiomae> all the rendering code
01:10 < timonator> how do you do things like the different composite modes?
01:10 < Uiomae> I'm using FBOs, and fragment shaders for the blending
01:11 < timonator> ah, fragment shaders
01:11 < Uiomae> fragment shaders
01:11 < timonator> that explains many things
01:11 < Uiomae> unfortunately, currently we cannot change the blending pipeline
01:11 < timonator> i don't have any idea of those :)
01:11 < Uiomae> maybe with OpenGL 3.0
01:11 < Uiomae> but not now
01:11 < Uiomae> :)
01:11 < timonator> why is opengl 3.0 not now?
01:11 < Uiomae> fragment shaders are simple
01:11 < timonator> ati and nvidia both have released ogl3 support for linux at least
01:11 < Uiomae> yeah, but support for that is only for new cards
01:12 < Uiomae> and not really needed
01:12 < timonator> oh, duh.
01:12 < Uiomae> with OGL 2.1 the improvements are very good
01:13 < timonator> is it in a usable state? or would i get utterly incomplete renderings if i tried the code?
01:13 < genete> timonator: it only works with CLI for the moment
01:13 < Uiomae> you can currently render text (finished today), rectangles, circles, regions, stars and use the rotate, move and zoom layers
01:14 < Uiomae> but yes, with CLI only
01:14 < genete> hi there :)
01:14 < Uiomae> hi Genete ;)
01:15 < Uiomae> also, the only blending layer that I've implemented is the composite one
01:15 < Uiomae> but the others are very easy to do
01:15 < Uiomae> I'm using only that one because maybe I've to change something very soon, and don't want to do with all the shaders
01:16 < timonator> i see
01:16 < Uiomae> and also they're straightforward to implement
01:16 < Uiomae> currently I'm having a problem wth antialiasing
01:16 < Uiomae> do you know something about multisampling and FBOs?
01:16 < timonator> no :|
01:16 < Uiomae> ok, don't worry ;)
01:17 < Uiomae> in what project do you currently work?
01:17 < timonator> hmm. i've been doing tiny bits of work here and there with huge timespans of lazyness and unmotivation in between
01:18 < Uiomae> jejej, usual story
01:19 < timonator> i've contributed bits to anki, the friendly, intelligent spaced repetition learning system, one or two lines of german translation to inkscape, one or two lines of code to synfig, a couple of features to cave9, a bugfix worth one byte to vlc...
01:20 < Uiomae> hey, you've been busy :)
01:20 < timonator> totally not
01:20 < timonator> the anki bits were small, the lines of translation were few, the lines of code were trivial, the byte wasn't really significant... the features to cave9 were cool, though.
01:21 < Uiomae> hey, never underestimate your work
01:21 < Uiomae> that byte was not there before you put it in
01:22 < timonator> OK, maybe the anki bits i underestimated a bit; the vlc byte was a fix that made the playlist display "Audio CD Track 01" instead of "1" so that the ordering would be correct ;)
01:23 < Uiomae> hehe, that's the spirit ;)
01:24 < timonator> but it's still frustrating. most of the time i spend doing mostly "sitting on my butt"
01:24 < timonator> i am in serious need of some sleep; good luck with the rest of your code :)
01:25 < vonHalenbach> yeah it is quite late at night here.
01:25 < timonator> early in the morning almost
01:26 < Uiomae> yeah, here too
01:26 < genete> night
01:26 < Uiomae> good night!
01:26 < vonHalenbach> night
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02:04 < Yoyobuae> anyone here read the 2009-02-14 log at around 23:00 (dooglus logs)?
02:04 < pixelbot> Hi - I'm a bot, but there may be someone around - if not, hang out for a bit...
02:06 < Yoyobuae> pixelbot: sudo go find someone
02:06 < pixelgeek> You called?
02:06 < Uiomae> I've read them, Yoyobuae
02:06 < Uiomae> pixelbot: sudo make me a coffe
02:06 < pixelbot> Coming right up!
02:07 < Yoyobuae> well, pixelbot did get someone
02:07 < Uiomae> xDD
02:07 < Yoyobuae> anyway, what do you guys think?
02:08 < Uiomae> I think there is a real need for organization, of course
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02:10 < Uiomae> what do you think Yoyobuae?
02:11 < Yoyobuae> if synfig is going to get anywhere, we need a clear organization
02:11 < Uiomae> and pixelgeek? are you there? :)
02:11 < pixelgeek> reading...
02:11 < Uiomae> ok :)
02:11 < pixelgeek> shhh... genete's here
02:11 < Uiomae> oh
02:11 < Yoyobuae> for example, if we get a interested dev right now, asking how can he contribute
02:12 < Yoyobuae> what would we answer?
02:12 < genete> OMG! it is 2:11 AM here and you start an interesting conversation!!!! >:(
02:12 < Uiomae> yeah, that's what happened to me when talking to vonHalenbach :)
02:12 < Uiomae> didn't know how to reply
02:12 < Uiomae> because we don't have a roadmap or something like that
02:12 < pixelgeek> I usually point them at genete's sig.
02:12 < pixelgeek> ;)
02:13 < Uiomae> jajaja, the one which reads "Synfig needs your help"?
02:13 < Yoyobuae> hehe
02:13 < Uiomae> it seems like "Call 911!!"
02:13 < genete> :P
02:13 < pixelgeek> Happy Valentine's day everyone, BTW!
02:13 < Uiomae> jajaja
02:13 < Yoyobuae> keep in mind that that "new dev" will either decide to stay or leave
02:13 < genete> <3 <3 <3
02:13 < Uiomae> my dog and I wish you a Happy Valentine day, too!
02:14 < pixelgeek> Who was it that was talking about nodes the other day?
02:14 < pixelgeek> (on a semi-unrelated topic)
02:14 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: yes, and with the current organization, he maybe just decide to leave
02:14 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: that was me!
02:14 < Uiomae> :)
02:14 < pixelgeek> ahah!  
02:14 < Uiomae> do you like or hate them?
02:14 < pixelgeek> Were you for them or against them?
02:15 < Uiomae> (we're on multi conversation here :P)
02:15 < Uiomae> hey, I asked first :P
02:15 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: i think we may have had a few that left, without us noticing T_T
02:15 < pixelgeek> I've not found them very intuitive under Blender.
02:15 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: yes, I think so :S
02:15 < pixelgeek> Much prefer using the filters in the sequence mode
02:15 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: have you tried TonnBoom Digital Pro ones?
02:15 < Uiomae> Toon Boom
02:16 < pixelgeek> No
02:16 < pixelgeek> Synfig is the only 2D animation program I've used.
02:16 < Uiomae> Toon Boom ones are more simplified, and very easy to work with
02:16 < Uiomae> I was thinking on something like that
02:16 < pixelgeek> It's the only one you need, right?  
02:16 < pixelgeek> Are they animatable?
02:16 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: that's why I think we really need some clear roadmap here
02:17 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: don't know if they're animatable, but my idea is making Synfig ones (if we ever implement them) animatable, of course
02:17 < Uiomae> just current functionality at least, but better and easier to work with
02:17 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: and coding guidelines
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02:17 < pixelgeek> Then my only reservation is probably fear of the unknown.  
02:17 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: those are a start
02:17 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: yes!
02:18 < genete> Hey guys, don't think I'm off this issue. For my health I have to go to bed. Think good and count with me. :)
02:18 < pixelgeek> genete had a crack at starting some coding guidelines
02:18 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: and first time you've used them, you wont come back :P
02:18 < pixelgeek> Good night
02:18 < genete> Night
02:18 < Uiomae> night genete!
02:18 < Yoyobuae> genete: how bout we continue tomorrow :)
02:18 < pixelgeek> Uiomae: I used them under blender then went back to using the sequencer ;)
02:18 < genete> I'll read the logs.... zzzzzz
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02:19 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: yeah, but blender ones are a bit cluttered
02:19 < Uiomae> I think of something easier to work, but with the same power
02:19 < pixelgeek> I'd be happier to get existing functionality more robust.
02:19 < Uiomae> and they're really powerful
02:19 < pixelgeek> There's still things that you can do to make Synfig fall over pretty quickly
02:19 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: genete also started a topic in the forums
02:20 < Uiomae> about coding guidelines and the ilke, and I replied, but no one else did
02:20 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: oh, ok
02:20 < pixelgeek> safe threading would be awesome, to take advantage of multi core CPUs
02:21 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: I know, getting robust functionality it's a good thing, but maybe changing a little here and there would help improve both functionality and stability
02:21 < Uiomae> and get some speed also
02:21 < pixelgeek> I might be able to get my hands on the Intel Thread profiler.  If I was able to run it against synfig, would anyone be able to look at the output and see if there's any easy fixes there?
02:21 < Uiomae> by using objects (Yoyobuae idea) and nodes, both things could happen
02:22 < Uiomae> I think we've to re-organize the code before being able to do something like that
02:22 < Uiomae> and that leads us to the Yoyobuae talk :)
02:22 < Uiomae> we need to change a frew things
02:22 < Uiomae> organizate them
02:22 < Uiomae> and code cleaning up is one of them
02:22 < pixelgeek> organizate :)
02:22 < Uiomae> it's badly needed
02:23 < pixelgeek> yes - darco mentions that was one of his goals
02:23 < Uiomae> organizate, yes. It's the wrong word? :P
02:23 < pixelgeek> just organize.
02:23 < Uiomae> sooorry :)
02:23 < pixelgeek> But organizate sounds much better :)
02:23 < Uiomae> jejejej
02:23 < Uiomae> I like good sounding words :D
02:24 < Uiomae> don't know how deep have you worked with the code
02:24 < pixelgeek> It's a big challenge, but it sounds like you're making some good headway with the renderer
02:24 < pixelgeek> Just enough to fix spelling mistakes in the GUI]
02:24 < Uiomae> but in some classes, half of the code doesn't work or is not needed anymore
02:24 < Uiomae> and there also lot of defines
02:24 < pixelgeek> (e.g.e sound)
02:24 < Uiomae> and commented code
02:25 < Uiomae> I see
02:25 < Uiomae> also, GTK code is badly mixed with the rest of the code
02:25 < Uiomae> but that's another story
02:25  * pixelgeek nods
02:25 < Uiomae> yes, the renderer is going good
02:25 < Uiomae> but I've found some problems related with that
02:26 < pixelgeek> oh?
02:26 < Uiomae> organization, or mixing of unrelated code
02:26 < Uiomae> sorry, again
02:26 < Uiomae> xDDç
02:26 < Uiomae> ah, no, "organization" belongs here in this case, isn't it?
02:26 < pixelgeek> yes
02:27 < Uiomae> jejeje
02:27 < Uiomae> English 1 - Uiomae 1
02:27 < Uiomae> :P
02:27 < pixelgeek> lol
02:27 < Uiomae> anyway, as yoyobuae said, we need some...
02:27 < Uiomae> O-word
02:27 < Uiomae> organi-something :P
02:27 < pixelgeek> When dooglus' laptop was working, he was very active
02:28 < Uiomae> I know
02:28 < Uiomae> I've talked with him about some things of the code
02:28 < pixelgeek> But he tended to focus on the 'bug of the day' - as it took his fancy
02:28 < Uiomae> aham
02:29 < pixelgeek> Not necessarily a bad thing - it got Synfig a lot more stable and useable
02:29 < Uiomae> of course it's a good thing
02:29 < Yoyobuae> 23:19 < vonHalenbach> When work is a big dark cloud, you will not work with happiness. You will only do the next thing near you and thats it. It has to be cut in little pieces.
02:29 < Uiomae> and badly needed, too
02:29 < pixelgeek> But yes, more O would not go amiss
02:29 < Uiomae> hey, the O thing it's only mine! xDD
02:29 < Yoyobuae> we always end up working in the next thing thats the neares 
02:30 < Uiomae> yeah, Yoyobuae
02:30 < Uiomae> IMHO, we need at least two things
02:30 < Uiomae> O-thing of the code
02:30 < Uiomae> and robust coding guidelines, to make all the code the same
02:31 < Uiomae> and then, we badly need a roadmap
02:31 < Yoyobuae> IMHO, what we need is one
02:31 < Uiomae> what need to be implemented
02:31 < Uiomae> and in what order
02:31 < Yoyobuae> one "person"
02:31 < Uiomae> just like Inkscape one
02:32 < Uiomae> hey, pixelgeek, you are a person, don't you?
02:32 < Uiomae> we need you!
02:32 < Uiomae> yoyobuae: only kidding ;)
02:32 < pixelgeek> I'm here
02:32 < Yoyobuae> someone that can look as synfig as a whole, and set the direction everyone works to
02:32 < pixelgeek> Just catching up with the logs
02:32 < Uiomae> yoyobuae: I also think so
02:33 < Uiomae> but I though pabs did that
02:34 < pixelgeek> I don't want to speak for pabs, but I think he views his role as maintainer rather than dictator...
02:34 < pixelgeek> director
02:34 < Uiomae> hey, I don't think a director is a dictator :P
02:34 < pixelgeek> (oops sorry pabs)
02:34 < Uiomae> we need someone that marks a direction
02:34 < pixelgeek> Thinking one thing and typing another.
02:35 < Uiomae> maybe hearing all the ideas, and selecting the ones synfig would benefit more in the near future
02:35 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: yeah, fix that now... xDD
02:35 < Yoyobuae> the direction is more or less the input from the users (wish list, roadmap)
02:35 < Uiomae> yes, but someone needs to decide
02:35 < pixelgeek> I think that the problem has been that there's never a shortage of cool ideas, but there was only one dooglus.
02:36 < Yoyobuae> but that ideas need to be defined better, and split into smaller parts that devs can implement
02:36 < pixelgeek> If we now have a pool of 2 (plus genete)....   :) 
02:37 < Uiomae> yeah, but even cool ideas need to be O-thing
02:37 < Uiomae> now, Yoyobuae want's to help, genete want's to help, you (pixelgeek) wants to help (I know it!), and I want to help
02:38 < pixelgeek> Do we have critical mass?  coders and users?  
02:38 < Uiomae> we need some sort of direction, as Yoyobuae said
02:38 < Uiomae> Gerco is also fixing things
02:38  * pixelgeek nods
02:38 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: don't know about the critical mass
02:38 < pixelgeek> I didn't mean my count of coders to be exclusive
02:39 < Uiomae> nono, of course not
02:39 < Uiomae> :P
02:39 < Uiomae> hey, we are real men here, even in St Valentines day, we don't get harmed so easily!
02:39 < Uiomae> xDDD
02:39 < Yoyobuae> lol
02:39 < Uiomae> (read that with a strong male voice)
02:39 < Uiomae> xDD
02:39 < pixelgeek> :)  It's too easy to take things out of context in txt
02:40 < Uiomae> don't worry
02:40 < pixelgeek> REAL MEN
02:40 < Yoyobuae> of course :)
02:40 < Uiomae> I'll cry later with my dog :P
02:40 < pixelgeek> MANLY MEN!
02:40 < Uiomae> yes!
02:40 < Yoyobuae> pixelgeek: remember, this is logged =p
02:40 < Uiomae> yeah, and tomorrow isn't St Valentine day :P
02:41 < pixelgeek> Yes, I know....   I can only edit the logs on the synfig server too.  Not on dooglus'
02:41 < Yoyobuae> someone could misinterpret things ;)
02:41 < Uiomae> maybe men get harmed on non-St Valentine days :P
02:41 < pixelgeek> I was going to say something there...  but it might come back to haunt me in divorce court ;)
02:41 < Uiomae> ajajajaja
02:42 < Uiomae> yeah, better be quiet
02:42 < Uiomae> anyway, the point is
02:42 < Uiomae> we're scaring the girls
02:42 < Uiomae> hmm, no
02:42 < Uiomae> that isn't the point, isn't it?
02:42 < pixelgeek> Rore's not online yet.
02:43 < pixelgeek> and amazingly she doesn't scare easily.
02:43 < pixelgeek> the point it...
02:43 < pixelgeek> is...
02:43 < pixelgeek> So Uiomae, you obviously have a passion for OpenGL
02:43 < Uiomae> good, we don't want to scare our entirely population of girls :P
02:43 < Uiomae> I've a passion for graphics in general
02:43 < pixelgeek> what other areas do you want to take the code?
02:43 < Uiomae> GUI is good for me, too
02:44 < Uiomae> I've written a few GUI libraries, and I know how to work with them
02:44 < pixelgeek> Because it makes no sense to say for example, we need a sound interface if no one can do anything about it
02:44 < Uiomae> yeah
02:44 < Uiomae> sound it's BAD for me, so don't count me in :P
02:45 < pixelgeek> So we've had a list of wish list items, and various attempts at roadmaps or GUI re-vamps, 
02:45 < pixelgeek> but without dedicated coders, the ideas just sit there.
02:45 < Uiomae> yes, but for dedicated coders to start coding, we need O
02:46 < Uiomae> for example, if we want some Inkscape coders to take a look and help
02:46 < Uiomae> we need the roadmaps, and guidelines
02:46 < Yoyobuae> as a coder, it is hard to take the idea and code it just like that
02:46 < Uiomae> I say that because we have the oportunity here, but it also counts for any coder in the future
02:46 < Uiomae> yeah
02:46 < pixelgeek> Is it a question of level?
02:47 < pixelgeek> The ones we have too high level??
02:47 < Uiomae> OpenGL renderer was a very defined thing, but it's not as easily for other things
02:47 < Uiomae> sorry, don't understand the level thing
02:47 < Yoyobuae> pixelgeek: yeah something like that
02:47 < pixelgeek> The high level goals for synfig are defined
02:47 < pixelgeek> be the best 2d animation software etc
02:47 < Uiomae> yes, something like that, as yoyobuae said
02:48 < pixelgeek> the 'how' we do that is the problem, right?
02:48 < Uiomae> but even for the high goals, they are not O!
02:48 < Uiomae> what we implement first?
02:48 < Uiomae> new GUI?
02:48 < Uiomae> new Renderer?
02:48 < pixelgeek> Every user has their own preferences
02:48 < Uiomae> SVG support?
02:48 < pixelbot> See http://www.synfig.org/Svg2synfig for details on external SVG importers. It is hoped to incorporate this feature natively into Synfig soon.
02:48 < pixelgeek> (me no like nodes :) )
02:48 < Uiomae> thanks pixelbot :P
02:48 < pixelbot> You're welcome!
02:48 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae:
02:48 < Yoyobuae> -highlevel: synfig code needs cleaning
02:48 < Yoyobuae> -low level: function A needs rewriting, class B needs this change, etc
02:49 < Uiomae> yeah, I know about the preferences
02:49 < Uiomae> (pixelgeek, you don't know what you want, yet xDD)
02:49 < pixelgeek> :P
02:49 < Uiomae> I understand, Yoyobuae
02:50 < pixelgeek> I think my point is that as Synfig stands right now, it's at a useable state.
02:50 < pixelgeek> It's not perfect, but I can do most anything I want to.
02:50 < pixelgeek> Was that my point?  Where was I going with that?
02:51 < Yoyobuae> its usable for simple things
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02:51 < Uiomae> yeah, where are you going, pixelgeek!
02:51 < pixelgeek> I know how to get the results I want (except for blur gradients), and adding new features only add complexity to it (more dependancies)
02:52 < pixelgeek> Hi kees!
02:52 < Uiomae> hi kees!
02:53 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: mainly, we're saying we need O even for fixing things, I think
02:53 < pixelgeek> I'm with you.  
02:53 < Uiomae> and also, Synfig has to grow
02:53 < Uiomae> for example, bones support
02:53 < Uiomae> or an useable camera
02:54 < Uiomae> I want to implement a 3D camera to use with the new OpenGL renderer, that I promixe you will be GREAT
02:54 < Uiomae> but we need directions
02:54 < pixelgeek> Darco had the vision
02:54 < Uiomae> when, why and maybe how
02:54 < pixelgeek> Genete has ideas for features
02:54 < Uiomae> yeah, I also have lot of ideas, but that's just the problem
02:54 < pixelgeek> Actually half the forum members have ideas for features
02:54 < Uiomae> yes
02:55 < Yoyobuae> i know Darco's vision, it was got me hooked on synfig
02:55 < Uiomae> you know what we need, don't make me say the word again :P
02:55 < pixelgeek> but finding the itime to rationalize and organize them....
02:55 < pixelgeek> beat ya!
02:55 < Uiomae> xD
02:55 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: what do you mean?
02:55 < Yoyobuae> and i think we have a long way to go
02:56 < Yoyobuae> http://synfig.org/History
02:56 < pixelgeek> This sounds like a plot for a stickman animation....  The long and winding road...
02:56 < Uiomae> yeah, I've read that
02:57 < Uiomae> ajajaja
02:57 < Uiomae> oooook, pixelgeek, you could use it for this months assiiiiignment
02:57 < pixelgeek> I'm thinking - can you hear the gears churning?
02:58 < Uiomae> don't know if they're "churning", but yes, I hear something
02:58 < Uiomae> :P
02:58 < pixelgeek> I'm trying to think of an easy way to use synfig like 'pencil'
02:58 < pixelgeek> so that I can draw each frame individually
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02:58 < Yoyobuae> IMHO synfig still hasn't made "tweening" any easier
02:58 < pixelgeek> but I'm going to end up with a lot of layer offscreeen...
02:58 < pixelgeek> hi factor 
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02:59 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: why do you want that?
02:59 < Uiomae> pixelgeek said: (01:50:16 AM) pixelgeek: It's not perfect, but I can do most anything I want to.
02:59 < pixelgeek> Yoyobuae: It has, but there's a lot of set up necessary to make it happen.
02:59 < Uiomae> :P
02:59 < pixelgeek> I can do it, but it's not pretty
02:59 < Uiomae> yes
02:59 < factor> lo pixelgeek
02:59 < Yoyobuae> pixelgeek: the setup is also work to do
02:59 < Uiomae> hi factor
03:00 < pixelgeek> how's sunny Oklahoma today?
03:00 < Yoyobuae> pixelgeek: in the end it all adds up, and we have gained nothing (or very little)
03:00 < pixelgeek> Yoyobuae: nod
03:00 < Uiomae> yeah
03:00 < Uiomae> so, what do you think it's the next step to do here
03:01 < Uiomae> to whom we have to talk?
03:01 < Uiomae> (pixelgeek, please correct my grammar :P)
03:01 < Yoyobuae> improve the manipulation of vector stuff 
03:01 < Yoyobuae> bones are an example
03:01 < pixelgeek> We could try and get a meeting going
03:01 < Uiomae> yoyobuae: I'm talking more about the O thing, to get things like that decided
03:01 < pixelgeek> We tried a few months back, but it got a little disjointed.
03:02 < Uiomae> well, lets try it again
03:02 < Uiomae> I could bring beer!
03:02 < pixelgeek> And here's where the rubber hits the road...  I'm going to be distracted until April...
03:03 < pixelgeek> (work stuff)
03:03 < pixelgeek> Mine's a Guinness
03:03 < Yoyobuae> its always gonna be like this
03:03 < Uiomae> ok, but one meeting, one day, a few hours?
03:03 < pixelgeek> Pick a time zone (or two)
03:03 < Uiomae> yeah
03:04 < Uiomae> but we have to keep the ball rolling
03:04 < pixelgeek> There's a couple of key players you want to ensure are present = dooglus, pabs, genete
03:04 < Uiomae> of course
03:04 < pixelgeek> Ok that's 3
03:04 < pixelgeek> but you get the drift
03:04 < Uiomae> genete it's not a problem, I think
03:04 < Uiomae> depending on the time, of course
03:04 < factor> bones owuld be nice
03:04 < factor> would^
03:04 < pixelgeek> pabs is in Australia, so would be online soon
03:04 < Uiomae> australia is...
03:04 < Uiomae> GMT+...?
03:05 < pixelgeek> Most of the fun conversations happen when I'm asleep :)
03:05 < Uiomae> ajajaja, same here, I'm sure
03:05 < pixelgeek> GMT -10 ish?
03:05 < Uiomae> I'm on GMT
03:05 -!- rubikcube [n=kvirc@dslb-088-070-026-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo"]
03:05 < Uiomae> but don't have any problem with any time
03:05 < Uiomae> (unemployed right now :P)
03:05 < Uiomae> what about you, Yoyobuae?
03:05 < Uiomae> and you, Pixelgeek
03:06 < pixelgeek> local time for pabs is Sun Feb 15 11:05:25 right now
03:06 < Uiomae> 11 in the morning
03:06 < Uiomae> good
03:06 < pixelgeek> I'm employed right now.  Assuming the depression doesn't get any worse.
03:06 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: im trying to be on as much as possible now
03:06 < Uiomae> I was talking about the timezone, but... :P
03:07 < Uiomae> good luck for you :)
03:07 < Yoyobuae> my timezone: GMT-5
03:07 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: but do you have any preference on the time?
03:07 < pixelgeek> me GMT+8
03:07 < Uiomae> we have lot of timezones here :P
03:07 < Uiomae> ok, so
03:07 < pixelgeek> genete had a map of users...
03:08 < Uiomae> GMT-10, GMT-5, GMT, GMT+2 (dooglus, I think), GMT+8
03:08 < Uiomae> it's obvious that GMT is the rule here :P
03:08 < pixelgeek> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=116057364030688865576.000450207c46f5e375936&ll=38.548165,10.898438&spn=145.708249,350.15625&z=2
03:09 < Uiomae> ok
03:09 < Uiomae> so Yoyobuae doesn't have much problem right now, don't you?
03:09 < Uiomae> I don't have problem
03:09 < Uiomae> do you know more or less when genete connects too, so...
03:10 < Uiomae> dooglus and pabs3 have to talk, then
03:10 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: during weekdays i can't take too much time to talk while at work
03:10 < pixelgeek> Like he said - it's very early morning for him right now
03:10  * pixelgeek likewise - difficult to talk at work
03:10 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: I know, of course I think it will be true for almost anyone
03:11 < Uiomae> so weekends are the preference, then
03:11 < pixelgeek> So weekends would be preferable
03:11 < Uiomae> yeah, you said it better :P
03:11 < Yoyobuae> why not use the forum? or something
03:11 < pixelgeek> Too slow
03:11 < Uiomae> no, I don't think so
03:11 < Uiomae> every "interesting" post in the forum ends as the coding guidelines one
03:12 < Uiomae> and it's slow,as pixelgeek said
03:12 < factor> yeah irc much quicker
03:12 < Uiomae> and we need to talk things
03:12 < Yoyobuae> what do we need to talk? lets make a list
03:12 < Uiomae> yeah, lets make a list
03:12 < Uiomae> 1. We don't want to scare the girls
03:12 < Uiomae> that's an important one!
03:13 < factor> heh
03:14 < Uiomae> sorry, just kidding
03:14 < Uiomae> very funny today, my fault :P
03:14 < Uiomae> we need to talk about the O
03:15 < Uiomae> who could be in charge, or at least, mark the direction
03:15 < Uiomae> we need a roadmap
03:15 < Uiomae> ONE roadmap
03:15 < Uiomae> and later, everyone could choose what to implement, but based on the directions of the "leader"
03:15 < Yoyobuae> i got the same:
03:15 < Yoyobuae> 1. decide which features are needed most
03:15 < Uiomae> or "leaders", don't know how that could work
03:15 < Yoyobuae> 2. which bugs need fixing the most
03:15 < Yoyobuae> 3. who will take care of the organization
03:16 < Uiomae> yes
03:16 < pixelgeek> I think the coders will be de facto the leaders
03:16 < Uiomae> also, documentation and tutorials, manuals, etc
03:16 < Uiomae> hmm, but still we need some guidance
03:16 < Uiomae> so what could be implemented next
03:16 < Uiomae> see the Inkscape roadmap
03:17 < pixelgeek> For guidance we need experienced artists
03:17 < Uiomae> it's "incomplete", as they're adding things
03:17 < pixelgeek> to tell us how best to target the tool
03:17 < Yoyobuae> we could ask guidance from other OSS project
03:17 < Yoyobuae> *projects
03:18 < Uiomae> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap
03:18 < Uiomae> yes
03:18 < Uiomae> that's another thing to discuss
03:19 < Yoyobuae> i like the Milestone/Effort scheme they use
03:19 < Uiomae> yes, me too
03:19 < Uiomae> they decide on big things, mark milestones for them
03:19 < Uiomae> and add between little improvements
03:19 < Uiomae> based or not on the milestone
03:20 < pixelgeek> Wow - just took a look at the new synfig roadmap.  
03:20 < Uiomae> but they have people that decide that things and meetings to add them
03:21 < Uiomae> the mindmap?
03:22 < Uiomae> but the mindmap is not very useful to direct things
03:22 < Uiomae> for example "Improve the accelerated renderer"
03:23 < Uiomae> that's a world on it's own!
03:23 < Uiomae> and it's in the upper left corner, very little :P
03:23 < Yoyobuae> i needs further subdividing then :)
03:23 < Yoyobuae> *it
03:23 < Uiomae> I think a mindmap is good to do some brainstorming, and to select ideas from
03:24 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: yeah, we can subdivide you if you need ;)
03:24 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: no thanks XD
03:24 < Uiomae> but a mindmap can't be used to mark the direction
03:24 < Uiomae> IMHO, of course :P
03:25 < Uiomae> ok, we have a list of things to discuss at the meeting them?
03:25 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae, secretary?
03:25 < Yoyobuae> secretary?
03:25 < Uiomae> Pixelgeek, vocal? witness?
03:25 < Uiomae> sorry, don't know how it's called in your country
03:25 < Uiomae> when you have a meeting
03:26 < Uiomae> there are a few people in charge
03:26 < Uiomae> someone speaks, someone takes notes, etc
03:26 < Uiomae> the note-taking person is the "secretary", AFAIK :P
03:27 < Yoyobuae> oh, ok
03:27 < Uiomae> couldn't you simply learn Spanish?
03:27 < Uiomae> it will be lot easier for me
03:27 < Uiomae> xDD
03:28 < Yoyobuae> spanish is my native language :D
03:28 < Uiomae> yeah¿
03:28 < Uiomae> though you were chinese
03:29 < Yoyobuae> lol, why?
03:29 < Uiomae> don't know, I've a mix in my head of people :P
03:29 < Uiomae> where are you from?
03:29 < Yoyobuae> Panama
03:30 < Uiomae> great :)
03:30 < Uiomae> I'm from Canary Islands, Spain :)
03:31 < pixelgeek> sorry - I was afk - small child melting down before bedtime.
03:31 < Uiomae> jejeje
03:31 < Uiomae> catch up with the logs :P
03:31 < pixelgeek> Yup - count me in for random comments, notes, whatever
03:31 < Uiomae> hey, i like the "random comments" thing
03:31 < Uiomae> xDD
03:32 < Uiomae> I could also do random comments!
03:32 < pixelgeek> !quote
03:32 < pixelbot> Synfig! For the best in Manually adjusted ducks!
03:32 < Uiomae> hey, I was about to say just that!!!
03:32 < pixelgeek> go ahead
03:32 < Uiomae> please be random!
03:32 < Uiomae> no, I mean the thing pixelbot said :P
03:32 < pixelgeek> !quote
03:32 < pixelbot> 15:58 < genete> what would happen if you tells pixelbot to quote this: "!quote"
03:32 < Uiomae> hehe,good one
03:32 < Uiomae> xD
03:33 < Uiomae> but my favourite one
03:33 < Uiomae> pixelbot: sudo make me a coffee!
03:33 < pixelbot> Coming right up!
03:33 < Uiomae> rore original :P
03:33 < pixelgeek> I did
03:33 < pixelgeek> o<
03:33 < pixelbot> >o
03:33 < pixelgeek> for kibi
03:33 < Uiomae> jejeje
03:34 < Uiomae> !quote
03:34 < pixelbot> 2007-9-19-01:02 < dooglus> I'm chris really. I chose dooglus once on the spur of the moment to evade an IRC ban, and didn't change it back
03:34 < Yoyobuae> well, now i know why 'dooglus'
03:34 < Uiomae> hmm
03:34 < Uiomae> I think we don't know yet
03:34 < Uiomae> xD
03:35 < Uiomae> we only know he is not dooglus, but chris
03:35 < Uiomae> :P
03:35 < Uiomae> and that he evades IRC bans in his free time
03:35 < pixelgeek> Eeek!  My name's down for SVG importer in the mindmap!
03:36 < pixelgeek> We'll be waiting for the rest of our lifetimes for me to do that.
03:36 < Uiomae> hehe
03:36 < Uiomae> I think the roadmap marks which ones requested
03:36 < Uiomae> instead of who is going to implement it
03:36 < Uiomae> or am I wrong?
03:36 < Uiomae> also, SVG importer is already done, sort of...
03:37 < Uiomae> Akagogo's importer works
03:37 < pixelgeek> Akagogo's got the best converter, but I can't get his patch to compile
03:37 < Uiomae> ahh, windows build
03:37 < Uiomae> I think I know the solution
03:37 < pixelgeek> Uiomae: genete said you have a windows machine?
03:37 < pixelgeek> available?
03:37 < Uiomae> yeah, but my solution was
03:37 < Uiomae> use linux :P
03:38 < Uiomae> ah, I wanted to say something about it to you
03:38 < pixelgeek> Hmmm...   won't work so well for me.
03:38 < Uiomae> are you using GCC 3.4.5 to do the compiling?
03:38 < pixelgeek> yes
03:38 < pixelgeek> it's the gcc that comes with msys
03:38 < Uiomae> why don't you use the 4.x branch?
03:38 < pixelgeek> ^^
03:38 < Uiomae> you can use GCC 4.x
03:38 < Yoyobuae> mingw doesn't have 4.x GCC IIRC
03:39 < Uiomae> msys have a version for some months
03:39 < Uiomae> yeah, it does have, AFAIK
03:39 < Uiomae> I used it in my old work place
03:39 < pixelgeek> I thought version 4 was more strict
03:39 < Uiomae> let me see
03:39 < Uiomae> yes, and that's good
03:39 < Uiomae> I use 4.4 to compile on Linux, and it works
03:39 < Yoyobuae> we'll then that's new
03:39 < Uiomae> so it has to work on windows too
03:40 < Uiomae> yeah, 4.3.0
03:40 < Uiomae> it's testing
03:40 < pixelgeek> ah - so the scope problems I'm seeing would not be an issue because gcc 4 handles them differently?
03:40 < Uiomae> but it works
03:40 < Uiomae> yeah, maybe
03:40 < Uiomae> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2435
03:40 < Uiomae> 4.3.0
03:40 < pixelgeek> yeah maybe - inspires confidence!  
03:40 < Uiomae> I know :D
03:40 < Uiomae> anyway, it's better to work with more or less the same version in the three platforms
03:41 < Uiomae> code has to work in all platforms without changes or defines
03:41 < Uiomae> almost
03:41 < Uiomae> in my experience, it can be done
03:41 < pixelgeek> OK, I'll add it to my list of things to try.  
03:41 < Uiomae> and made it compiling even on VC++2005, for example
03:41 < Uiomae> without changes
03:41 < Uiomae> or minimal ones
03:42 < pixelgeek> You said you did?
03:42 < Uiomae> not Synfig, but other projects
03:42 < pixelgeek> ah
03:42 < Uiomae> haven't tried synfig
03:42 < pixelgeek> How hard would it be to build synfig under VC?
03:42 < Uiomae> only doing a project
03:43 < Uiomae> of course, lot of things will need some change
03:43 < pixelgeek> (and finding all the dependencies)
03:43 < Uiomae> yeah, that goes into the project thing :)
03:43 < pixelgeek> It would help the windows users
03:43 < pixelgeek> provide for a real IDE, and debugging environment
03:44 < pixelgeek> (gdb very painful for me)
03:44 < Uiomae> ??
03:44 < Uiomae> I don't like you
03:44 < Uiomae> really
03:44 < pixelgeek> ?
03:44 < Uiomae> if you don't like gdb
03:44 < Uiomae> I can't like you
03:44 < Uiomae> sorry
03:44 < Uiomae> :P
03:45 < pixelgeek> I didn't say I didn't like it. 
03:45 < Uiomae> but you THOUGHT it!
03:45 < pixelgeek> Just painful to run it under windows
03:45 < Uiomae> don't really remember, but I take your word
03:46 < Uiomae> what is the current building chain for windows?
03:46 < pixelbot> The current release of Synfig is 0.61.09.
03:46 < pixelgeek> I tried the insight gui, but there's bugs that cause everything to just cease to be
03:46 < Uiomae> thanks pixelbot
03:46 < pixelbot> You're welcome!
03:46 < Uiomae> don't like insight
03:46 < pixelgeek> msys
03:46 < Uiomae> never worked for me
03:46 < pixelgeek> You see my pain then ;)
03:46 < Uiomae> jeje
03:46 < Uiomae> but plain old gdb worked great, IIRC!
03:47 < Uiomae> except some bad thing with [ and ]
03:47 < Uiomae> if I type one of them, gdb hangs :P
03:47 < Uiomae> so I can't sneak arrays, and the like
03:47 < Uiomae> ok,ok
03:47 < Uiomae> MAYBE, but only maybe, it's a BIT painful to use gdb on windows
03:48 < pixelgeek> I'm going to add that to the quote database.
03:48 < Uiomae> OMG, that's bad, doesn't it?
03:48 < pixelgeek> :D
03:49 < pixelgeek> No, I need to better understand the build process
03:49 < pixelgeek> Improve the windows installer so all the dependencies are installed.
03:49 < Uiomae> could it be possible a change to CMake?
03:50 < pixelgeek> One stop shop for synfig instead of GTK, GTKmm, core & studio
03:50 < pixelgeek> I don't know CMake
03:51 < pixelgeek> My main problem is that my aging P4 PC takes a little under an hour to build core and studio from scratch.
03:51 < Uiomae> it's what's using KDE right now, and it's very easy to work with
03:51 < Uiomae> hmm, that's bad
03:51 < pixelgeek> So making changes and testing is a long process
03:51 < Uiomae> I see
03:51 < Uiomae> see, you don't have to rebuild all when doung changes
03:51 < pixelgeek> Partial rebuilds still ~10 minutes
03:51 < Uiomae> *doing
03:52 < pixelgeek> Depending on scope
03:52 < Uiomae> even when autotools wants you to rebuild all modules if you change the libraries
03:52 < pixelgeek> Main problem is that I work by trial and error.
03:52 < Uiomae> jejeje
03:52 < Uiomae> sometimes I do, too :)
03:53 < pixelgeek> My programming skills are all self-taught, and I'm neither the best teacher or the best student.
03:53 < Uiomae> jeje
03:54 < Uiomae> ok, I'll try to build synfig on windows
03:54 < Uiomae> with latest gcc and msys
03:54 < Uiomae> 1.0.11
03:55 < Uiomae> cygwin is also an option, but I don't like hanging around with the cygwin dll
03:55 < Uiomae> and also don't know about the license
03:58 < factor> dant have windows here.
03:59 < Uiomae> I've to leave, and get some sleep
03:59 < factor> ok
03:59 < factor> see ya
04:00 < Uiomae> Pixelgeek, Yoyobuae: could you talk about the meeting to all the people you can, especially dooglus and pabs?
04:00 < Uiomae> factor: see ya!
04:00 < Uiomae> we need a date
04:00 < Uiomae> maybe next weekend
04:00 < pixelgeek> OK - night
04:01 < Uiomae> maybe we can get darco here, too
04:01 < pixelgeek> will poke pabs - haven't seen dooglus in ages
04:01 < pixelgeek> that would be very cool
04:01 < Uiomae> don't know, but someone seems to talk to him
04:01 < Uiomae> I'll talk with genete
04:01 < Uiomae> good night to everyone!
04:01 < pixelgeek> nod - genete talks with dooglus 
04:01 < pixelgeek> night!
04:01 < factor> no dooglus
04:02 < factor> dho!
04:02 < factor> have to kick my self into gear myself.
04:02 < Uiomae> pixelbot: sudo make me a coffee!
04:02 < pixelbot> Coming right up!
04:02 < Uiomae> hehe, wanted to see last time XD
04:02 -!- Uiomae [n=arcnor@61.Red-88-24-197.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
04:04 < pixelgeek> well, doesn't look like I'm going to be working on my stickman animation much this afternoon.
04:04 -!- Yoyobuae [n=chatzill@201.218.125.253] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:05 < factor> sorry to hear that.
04:05 < factor> trying to get some java stuff going here
04:05 < pixelgeek> anything cool?
04:05 < pixelbot> is better than nothing
04:05 < factor> trying to get the flex action script compiler to work on linux
04:05 < factor> as3
04:05 < factor> looks open source
04:05 -!- Yoyobuae [n=chatzill@201.218.125.253] has joined #synfig
04:05 < factor> just cant get it to compile
04:05 < pixelgeek> ick
04:06 < factor> java and flash to worst language now in one
04:06 < factor> yeah!
04:06 < factor> but want to get it work on linux to do some flash compiling demos.
04:07 < pixelgeek> good luck!
04:07 < factor> yeah
05:47 -!- prokoudine_ [n=avp@wn1nat29.beelinegprs.ru] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
06:44  * pixelgeek off to bed
07:04 -!- pixelgeek [n=chatzill@c-67-189-66-158.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:04 -!- Yoyobuae [n=chatzill@201.218.125.253] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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10:39 -!- genete [n=carlos@79.108.35.41.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #synfig
10:40 < genete> hi
10:41 < genete> anyone awake?
10:41 < rore> pixelbot: sudo make genete a coffee :)
10:41 < pixelbot> Coming right up!
10:42 < genete> moin rore :)
10:42 < rore> 'morning 
10:42  * genete doesn't like coffee but thanks anyway :)
10:43 < genete> long logs isn't it?
10:44 < rore> hm, yes. A log with ... real manly men? O_o ...  What did pixelgeek drink? Something stronger than coffee, surely
10:45  * genete didn't catch all the jokes in the logs ;)
10:45 < genete> only the one with the O 
10:46 < rore> that was the one I didn't get
10:46 < rore> (and I still haven't read the whole log, I just looked at the place there was some highlight on my name)
10:48 < genete> I still wonder what's the vision that people have about me :D
10:48 < genete> 02:36 < pixelgeek> If we now have a pool of 2 (plus genete)....   :)  (he was referring to current devs)
10:49 < genete> and uiomae call me co-leader hahahaha :)
10:50 < genete> and this was funny: 
10:50 < genete> 02:42 < pixelgeek> Rore's not online yet. 
10:50 < genete> 02:43 < pixelgeek> and amazingly she doesn't scare easily. 
10:50 < rore> and pabs is called the dictator, poor pabs ;)
10:50 < genete> lol
10:50 < pabs3> :)
10:50 < genete> lots of quotes candidates there! 
10:50 < genete> morning pabs3 :)
10:50 < pabs3> evening
10:51 < pabs3> debian releases today :D
10:51 < rore> <pixelgeek> I don't want to speak for pabs, but I think he views his role as maintainer rather than dictator...
10:51 < rore> <pixelgeek> director
10:51 < rore> I really love that one :)
10:51 < genete> send it to him for quoting 
10:51 < pabs3> on that front, who wants to do sysadmin? I'm doing a bad job
10:52 < genete> pabs3: you know I would be candidate for that if I were able to not broke more things that I can potentially fix
10:53 < pabs3> :)
10:53 < genete> not personal fate, just lake of knowledge
10:53 < genete> maybe a transition period?
10:54 < genete> where I can get more confidence on some tasks?
10:54 < pabs3> sure
10:54 < genete> (for example I can carry on the next release and polish the wiki instructions)
10:54 < pabs3> I need to organise a todo list and some docs on the wiki
10:54 < pabs3> and more info
10:55 < genete> the release instructions are an example of things I need
10:56 < genete> detailed, step by step instructions makes me more confident and brave to broke, *ahem* admin things
10:56 < pabs3> :)
10:57 < genete> for example, morevna's Contributor's guide opened my eyes to git-gui
10:57 < pabs3> git-gui/gitk rocks
10:57 < pabs3> there are other good git guis too though
10:57 < genete> http://morevnaproject.org/wiki/Contributor%27s_Guide
10:58 < genete> talking about git
10:58 < genete> git migration is important for most of us
10:59 < genete> and one single git makes happy to me, dooglus and uiomae
10:59 < genete> one single git makes you worry and git in general makes gerco indifferent
11:00 < genete> I think rore, pixelgeek and the rest just are careless
11:00 < pabs3> I'm likely not going to care about git once someone else takes over sysadmin
11:01  * rore doesn't care as long as she knows how to retrieve the last repository version easily 
11:01 < genete> but you still being a coder, so your vote is qualified
11:02 < pabs3> well, I haven't looked at the code in months and I don't think I will be in the future either
11:03 < genete> there is one good thing that you've been doing that scares me personally if you don't continue doing it: code configuration maintenance
11:03 < pabs3> :D http://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2009/msg00002.html
11:03 < pabs3> you mean the autoconf stuff?
11:03 < pabs3> I think gerco can handle that
11:03 < genete> I have not idea on autoreconf and such and that is important for some critical desitions
11:03 < genete> yes, autoconf
11:13 < genete> other thing I'd love to have is a more user/webmonkey friendly wiki. Current one is very easy to mess up! 
11:14 < genete> it gained visual beauty with Yaco's change but still being not intuitive for users and a pain for webmonkeys to maintain
11:14 < genete> for example, reverse navigation is a pain
11:15 < genete> if I (as user) reach a deep page there is not way to raise up one depth level unless you navigate to a very root page 
11:16 < genete> unless the wiki creator add a link to the good parent page in the child one.
11:16 < genete> so wiki rework is another thing to do/talk/think
11:18 < genete> unfortunately I don't have enough php, html, etc. programming language to redo the wiki concept
11:18 < pabs3> yep, lots to do
11:19 < genete> (I have more voluntarism than knowledge :()
11:20 < AkhIL> synfig still can't work with non squire pixel
11:21 < AkhIL> it is very bad
11:21 < genete> square*
11:21 < AkhIL> yes
11:22 < genete> AkhIL: is there a bug tracker for that? a detailed recipe?
11:23 < AkhIL> it is in bug tracker long time
11:27 < genete> link please, I cannot find it
11:27 < AkhIL> searching
11:30 < AkhIL> hmm... can't find
11:32 < genete> Something that (I think) rubikcube did some time ago: http://synfig.org/Image_Dimensions
11:34 < genete> AkhIL: would you please add a bug tracker with a detailed recipe to see what should it do and what does it do?
11:34 < AkhIL> in some day i would
11:35 < genete> nice! :)
11:36 < AkhIL> one more thing. Black selecting rectangle invisble on dark image
11:37 < genete> yeah, and keyframes names are also not visible under background with same color, triangle sliders of color and gradient dialogs not visible, red square for selected vertices not visible under red background ... 
11:40  * Bombe finally merged his old UI changes into current trunk.
11:40 < Bombe> Anybody cares for a diff or three? :)
11:41 < genete> Bombe: please add a patch in the tracker. Wehn I have time I'll test them :)
11:41 < Bombe> Okay.
11:42 < pabs3> Bombe: perhaps you would like to take on converting to GtkBuilder? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570307 http://chipx86.github.com/gtkparasite/
11:47 < Bombe> I’ll take a look at it.
11:47 < Bombe> Ah, it builds GUIs from XML files, okay.
11:48 < pabs3> yeah. and there is a nice GUI to build the XML, makes it real easy
11:48 < pabs3> anyone can mock up a new dialog
11:48  * AkhIL likes gtk but dislikes gtkmm
11:49 < pabs3> Bombe: parasite with dumping to GtkBuilder will make it much easier to switch
11:49 < pabs3> the authors didn't reply to my mail yet though
11:49 < pabs3> AkhIL: C++?
11:49 < AkhIL> yah
11:51 < AkhIL> pabs3, just imagine how nice will be if synfig studio would writen on some scripting language like python,ruby or lua
11:51 < pabs3> even more slow?
11:51 < pabs3> :)
11:51 < AkhIL> only gui
11:51 < AkhIL> not renderer
11:52 < pabs3> ah
11:52 < AkhIL> once again, only gui
11:53 < AkhIL> actualy scripting language in this case only glue
11:53 < AkhIL> between binary rendering engine and binary gtk+ library
11:53 < AkhIL> but chenging gui much simpler in such languages
11:54 < AkhIL> as I know jahshaka had seleted this way
11:55 < AkhIL> they did special qt widgets in c++ but user interface done in python
11:55 < genete> First step step is to make GUI independent from renderer, I think 
11:56 < AkhIL> is it not independent???
11:56 < pabs3> it is independent
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11:58 < genete> well, latest comments from uiomae told me that there are lots of connections
11:59 < pabs3> but you can run synfig foo.sif on a server without synfigstudio, so there must not be any
11:59 < pabs3> perhaps he means connections from synfigstudio to libsynfig?
11:59 < genete> oh, well I'm talking about studio renderers
11:59 < genete> not CLI what is clearly independent
12:00 < pabs3> I didn't know there were seperate renderers for studio?
12:00  * pabs3 confused
12:00 < genete> yes, ducks for example has its own renderers 
12:00 < pabs3> ah, ok
12:01 < genete> background grey chequerboard is other
12:01 < genete> and so on
12:02 < genete> I've noticed too that what studio shows in the screen is not the same than the rendered from the CLI and the File>Render command
12:02 < AkhIL> anyway why synfig's gui so slow
12:02 < AkhIL> i'm draging dugs
12:02 < pabs3> the core renderer has no need for dealing with those things though
12:02 < AkhIL> and synfig rerenders it to slow
12:03 < genete> opengl would improve that heaps 
12:04 < genete> but Yoyobuae idea of work more the vector world before send it to raster world would increase it much more even
12:05 < genete> Relative to studio window vision and render result I think that renderer clap the colors to valid ones. If I set the color to be alpha=300 the result in studio window becomes completely different that CLI render or studio render to file
12:05 < genete> Same happen with gamma
12:06 < genete> change the gamma in studio doesn't modify the output render to file. It ignores it. I don't know if it is intentional or just a bug
12:06 < genete> s/clap/clamp
12:08  * AkhIL once again had brought pessimistc mood to channel 
12:09 < pabs3> genete: sounds like a bug or a few
12:10 < genete> AkhIL: don't think that. First thing to be better is to perfectly know the weakness of us
12:11 < genete> pabs3: for color clamp I don't think it is a bug. If the output format doesn't support HDRI then the colors should be clamped. I tested it with PNG
12:11 < AkhIL> about pixel aspect problem: synfig studio shoul drop image resolution and render it using fisical image window size
12:11 < AkhIL> and all be fine
12:11 < pabs3> genete: hmm
12:12 < AkhIL> but for final rendering it should put image window to this resolution
12:12 < genete> pabs3: what does mean alpha less than zero for a RGBA color?
12:13 < pabs3> depends on the display
12:19 -!- rubikcube [n=kvirc@dslc-082-082-085-081.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #synfig
12:23 < AkhIL> and I want a way to cencel rendering in synfig studio
13:26  * rore nods, be able to cancel a render would be nice
14:07 -!- Uiomae [n=arcnor@113.Red-83-35-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #synfig
14:07 < Uiomae> hi all
14:07 < pixelbot> Hello Uiomae
14:07 < Uiomae> hello pixelbot :P
14:08 < pixelbot> Hello Uiomae
14:09 < rubikcube> pixelbot, say Hello pixelbot
14:09 < pixelbot> Hello rubikcube
14:09 < rubikcube> bah
14:09 < rubikcube> :)
14:10 < Uiomae> jejeje
14:10 < Uiomae> didn't work :P
14:24 < rore> ahah, genete's entry for the stickman challenge is nice :) (I just saw it)
14:25 < genete> :) rore do you want the "skeleton" for your entry?
14:27 < rore> no, I think I could handle it. But I will definitely do something simpler than what I wanted at 1st
14:28 < rore> I draw a (silly) stickman comic last night, maybe I could animate it... although it'll be a little cheating, because the stickman almost doesn't move 
14:39 < genete> rore: yeah, difficult to give expressions to a stickman without eyes or mouth!
14:40 < rore> well, mine had eyes (althought it wasn't really necessary)
14:40 < rore> eyes and cheeks 
14:42 < rore> (it wasn't done for synfig at the beginning but maybe I could convert it)
14:52 < factor> stickmen can have expression though.
14:53 < genete> rore wrote: "because the stickman almost doesn't move" ;)
14:53 < factor> arm jestures and like the japamation style shaking and stuff around the head.
14:53 < factor> heh
14:58 -!- factor [n=factor@ip70-189-85-196.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
14:59 < rubikcube> xkcd is the proof that even still stickmen can have expression
14:59 < Uiomae> hey, I was looking at xkcd just right now
14:59 < Uiomae> xDD
15:01 -!- genete [n=carlos@79.108.35.41.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit ["Leaving."]
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15:13 -!- Yoyobuae [n=chatzill@201.218.125.253] has joined #synfig
15:13 < Uiomae> hi Yoyobuae
15:13 < Yoyobuae> hi
15:42 < Yoyobuae> just read logs, why everyone become silent just as i arrived :p
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15:51 < Uiomae> hey, Yoyobuae
15:51 < Uiomae> same here
15:51 < Uiomae> xDD
15:52 < Uiomae> maybe we have to do a bit of noise first :P
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16:11 < rore> noise? just use the pixelbot quotes :p 
16:13 < Yoyobuae> i considering just saying everyones name :D
16:15 < Uiomae> hehe, maybe that will work too
16:15 < Uiomae> :P
16:15 < rore> if you really want to wake people, say something like "I just finished writting everything for synfig in openGL, woooh!" :D
16:15 < Uiomae> pixelbot: sudo make me a coffee!!
16:15 < pixelbot> Coming right up!
16:15 < Uiomae> rore: that's just great!
16:15 < Uiomae> why didn't you tell me?
16:15 < rore> XD
16:16 < Uiomae> xD
16:16 < timonator> XD
16:17 -!- Zelgadis [n=zelgadis@92.124.231.245] has joined #synfig
16:17 < rore> :þ
16:18 < Uiomae> OpenGL now has text too, that have to count, doesn't it?
16:18 < Uiomae> hey people, OpenGL has text! and rore finished porting!
16:18 < Zelgadis> Hi, everyone! and pixelbot too.
16:18 < rore> *shriek* 
16:19 < Yoyobuae> ow, my ears 
16:19 < Uiomae> hi Zelgadis!
16:19  * rore runs far away from Uiomae and his sayings :p
16:19 < rore> 'llo Zelgadis 
16:19 < Uiomae> sorry rore :P
16:24 < Zelgadis> Uiomae: Text? great news
16:24 < Zelgadis> !
16:25 < Uiomae> yes, with no hinting yet, but text at least
16:25 < Zelgadis> cool!
16:25 < Zelgadis> Also I'm excited about 20-times speedup!
16:25 < Uiomae> don't know what to play with now
16:25 < Uiomae> maybe blur or something
16:25 < Uiomae> jeje, yes, that's great
16:25 < Uiomae> but remember, only in trotate layers at least
16:25 < Zelgadis> what about outlines?
16:26 < Uiomae> we've to try with big files, to see
16:26 < Uiomae> yeah, outlines working
16:26 < Zelgadis> Outlines working?
16:26 < Uiomae> hey, I've remembered I haven't tested that ones
16:26 < Uiomae> :P
16:26 < Uiomae> but yes, they should work
16:26 < Zelgadis> O_0
16:26 < Uiomae> yes, they use the same code as regions
16:26 < Uiomae> and stars and the like
16:26 < rore> oh, so the text wasn't just a joke, greaaaat :)
16:26 < Uiomae> and that are working and tested now
16:27 < Zelgadis> Agrhh... I should find a time to build GL-synfig!..
16:27 < Uiomae> rore: of course not! don't you see I'm a serious dude??
16:27 < rore> ^^
16:27 < Uiomae> xDD
16:27 < rore> I IS SERIOUS CAT
16:27 < Uiomae> hey, I have my moments :P
16:28 < Uiomae> I did not get that one :P
16:28 < rore> ha, that was "I are serious cat". See http://www.jasonfinley.com/SeriousCat.jpg 
16:29 < rore> the kind of silly image I like, heh
16:29 < Uiomae> jejeje
16:29 < Uiomae> I see...
16:29  * Uiomae runs away from rore kind of silly images
16:29  * Uiomae without anyone noticing
16:30 < rore> they're all trying the gegl text
16:30 < rore> errr
16:30 < rore> opengl
16:30 < Uiomae> jejeje, of course :P
16:30 < rore> (if I confuse gelg and opengl now ... ouch)
16:31 < Uiomae> Zelgadis: maybe you could send me some outline example (I cannot run Studio, long story :P)
16:31 < Uiomae> rore: yeah, you have a BIG problem there
16:31 < Uiomae> :P
16:43 < Zelgadis> Uiomae: http://filebin.ca/hppzh/outlines.sifz
16:44 < Uiomae> testing!
16:45 < Uiomae> yeah, working as good as usual
16:45 < Uiomae> :)
16:45 < Uiomae> but with OpenGL, of course :P
16:46 < Uiomae> thanks Zelgadis
16:46 < Zelgadis> thank you, Uiomae 
16:46 < Uiomae> okay, lets see the next layer on the list
16:47 < Uiomae> linear gradient, I think
16:47  * Zelgadis starting to modify his package build script to hook with git
16:48 < Uiomae> hehe
16:48 < Uiomae> just try and tell me
16:48 < Uiomae> you'll have to install a few packages, of course
16:48 < Uiomae> glew
16:48 < Zelgadis> Uiomae: Do I need to run autoreconf stuff before building?
16:48 < Uiomae> yes
16:48 < Uiomae> with force and install
16:48 < Uiomae> autoreconf --force --install
16:48 < Zelgadis> ok
16:49 < Uiomae> but current state maybe be a bit of a dissapointment
16:49 < Uiomae> remember, this is wip
16:49 < Uiomae> :P
16:49 < Uiomae> you can only use
16:49 < Zelgadis> I do remember
16:49 < Uiomae> star, regions, outlines, text, rectangle, circle, translate, zoom and rotate
16:49 < Uiomae> and solid color
16:49 < Uiomae> if you use one not on the list, it won't finish rendering
16:49 < Zelgadis> But still that could be very productive for animatic
16:50 < Zelgadis> OK, thanks for warning
16:50 < Uiomae> yeah, but only works currently with the CLI
16:50 < Uiomae> no studio yet, I haven't hooked it
16:50 < timonator> shouldn't be too hard, though, should it ?!
16:50 < Zelgadis> Oh, pity.
16:50 < Uiomae> hooking with the studio?
16:50 < timonator> yes
16:50 < Zelgadis> Don't really know how hard is it. ^_^
16:50 < Uiomae> hmmm
16:51 < Uiomae> I've to disconnect tile rendering for opengl, and always use scanline one
16:51 < Uiomae> not, maybe not
16:51 < Uiomae> Zelgadis: if you really want to try on studio, I'll fix it
16:51 < Uiomae> working on it
16:52 < Zelgadis> I will be grateful!
16:52 < Uiomae> :)
16:53 < timonator> yay
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16:56 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: how dependend is the openGL rendering on shaders and such
16:56 < Yoyobuae> im afraid my *very* old video card wont do xD
16:56 < Uiomae> what card do you have?
16:57 < Uiomae> unfortunately, OpenGL renderer will only work on cards from 2006 onwards
16:57 < Uiomae> at first
16:57 < Yoyobuae> i have radeon 9200
16:57 < Uiomae> I could change requirements, and turn on/off settings, but with time
16:57 < Uiomae> let me see
16:58 < Uiomae> also, ATI cards work a bit crappy with new stuff, don't know why
16:59 < Uiomae> are you on linux?
17:00 < Yoyobuae> i was talking about my windows PC
17:00 < Uiomae> ok
17:00 < Yoyobuae> linux PC is work laptop
17:00 < Uiomae> can you install glew on your windows pc?
17:00 < Yoyobuae> i dont know what card this labtop has though =/
17:00 < Uiomae> it comes with an utility called glewinfo
17:00 < Yoyobuae> ok
17:00 < Uiomae> run it, and send me the output
17:01 < Uiomae> hey, maybe I can open a post in the forums, so I could check more or less what support people have
17:01 < Yoyobuae> yeah, that would be good
17:01  * timonator has super awesome gfx card
17:02 < Uiomae> ok, going to do that
17:02 < Uiomae> timonator, what card do you have?
17:06 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: http://members.lycos.co.uk/yoyobuae/glewinfo.txt
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17:08 < Uiomae> don't look good
17:08 < Yoyobuae> i though so xD
17:08 < Uiomae> you seem to have missing some key extensions
17:08 < Uiomae> like FBO support
17:08 < Uiomae> speed increase is based on that extensions
17:08 < timonator> 04:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GeForce 8800 GT (rev a2)
17:09 < Uiomae> well, using another methods also come with speed increase over exiisting renderer, but I've go first with FBOs
17:09 < Uiomae> FBO is the extension :P
17:09 < Uiomae> timonator: hey, you have the best right now :)
17:09 < timonator> yayness!
17:09 < Uiomae> I want to get one of those cards
17:09 < timonator> it feels good to be on top of something
17:09 < Uiomae> jejeje, not on top, really, but very good
17:10 < Uiomae> ;)
17:10 < timonator> "you have the best right now"
17:10 < Uiomae> yeah, right now for the current state of the renderer
17:10 < Uiomae> but you don't have a 295, for example xDD
17:10 < timonator> well...
17:10 < timonator> whatever ;)
17:10 < Uiomae> ajajaja
17:11 < Uiomae> but hey, who will want to spend 600$ on a video card??
17:11 < timonator> ;))
17:11 < Uiomae> I want to get one of those 8800
17:12 < Uiomae> yoyobuae: maybe in a few weeks I could get the renderer working on cards like yours
17:12 < Uiomae> by the way, are you using the lastest drivers?
17:12 < Uiomae> that's very important
17:13 < Yoyobuae> no xd
17:13 < Yoyobuae> XD
17:14 < Uiomae> jajaja
17:15 < Uiomae> OK, I've reused my existing message, because I don't know if the matter it's important enough to write a new post
17:15 < Uiomae> http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=362&p=2406#p2406
17:15 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: if you can, please install the lastest drivers, and attach files there
17:16 < Uiomae> timonator: also, you could do it to have a little database
17:16 < Uiomae> rore, Zelgadis: if you can, please also do it :)
17:16 < Uiomae> pixelbot, you too!
17:16 < Uiomae> pixelbot: sudo run glewinfo!
17:17 < Uiomae> hmm, maybe it's sleeping
17:17 < Uiomae> do androids dream of electric sheep?
17:17 < Uiomae> xD
17:18 < rore> hehehe :) Maybe pixelbox reacts just to sudo+make something
17:18 < Uiomae> pixelbot: sudo make run glewinfo > glewinfo.txt!
17:18 < pixelbot> Coming right up!
17:18 < Uiomae> yeah, you have a point, rore ;)
17:19 < Uiomae> hey, maybe it really runs commands on pixelgeek PC
17:19 < Uiomae> let's try
17:19 < Uiomae> pixelbot: make rm -rf /
17:19 < Uiomae> pixelbot: sudo make rm -rf /
17:19 < pixelbot> Coming right up!
17:19 < Uiomae> okay, if we hear pixelgeek screaming, THAT worked
17:19 < Uiomae> :)
17:21 < rore> jajaja (so you're in one of those serious moment again? ;) ) 
17:21 < Uiomae> of course!
17:21 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: dont be so mean to pixelgeek
17:22 < Yoyobuae> and your thing won't work on a Windows pc =p
17:22 < Uiomae> yoyobuae: me, like manly men, I'm only mean with absent people :P
17:22 < Uiomae> what do you have to do on Windows?
17:22 < Zelgadis> Uiomae: done
17:22 < rore> oh dear, the return of the manly men ... 
17:23 < Yoyobuae> pixelgeek runs a windows system, remember
17:23 < creek23> isnt there a manly girl? :D
17:23 < Uiomae> rore: hey, you're the 100% percent of girl population here, and not so easily scared
17:23 < creek23> Yoyobuae: it
17:23 < Uiomae> Zelgadis: thanks, taking a look
17:23 < creek23> Yoyobuae: it's pixelbot he's bullying
17:23 < rore> there was another girl, some time ago. Maybe long time ago, argh.
17:23 < Uiomae> creek23: please run the test too :)
17:24 < creek23> nah not me :)
17:24 < creek23> im on xp :P
17:24 < Uiomae> yeah, but the test also work on windows
17:24 < Uiomae> yoyobuae: you said my thing won't work on windows, why?
17:24 < creek23> really.
17:25 < creek23> not even with mingw or cygwin
17:25 < creek23> sudo is not present on them :P
17:25 < Uiomae> ohh
17:25 < Uiomae> I was talking about the post in the forms
17:25 < Uiomae> xDD
17:25 < Uiomae> forums
17:25 < rore> the generated glewinfo.txt is 115kb Oo... lot of text
17:25 < creek23> oh that.
17:26 < Uiomae> yeah, don't worry
17:26 < Uiomae> yoyobuae: I get it, I'll fix the command
17:26 < Uiomae> pixelbot: sudo make format c:
17:26 < pixelbot> Coming right up!
17:26 < creek23> ahaha!
17:26 < Uiomae> ok, NOW I hear pixelgeek screaming
17:26 < Yoyobuae> lol
17:26 < Uiomae> hey, did you think I'm a totally idiot when it comes to Windows world???
17:27 < Uiomae> YES, I'AM!
17:27 < Uiomae> but that's not the point :P
17:28 < Uiomae> Zelgadis: your's will work
17:28 < Uiomae> I've a 7200GS :)
17:28 < Uiomae> yours is a bit better, though, but not sure about the differences
17:28 < Zelgadis> cool
17:29 < Uiomae> only that yours run faster than mine (GT vs GS)
17:29 < Zelgadis> 7300 is enough for me - I'm not a gamer
17:29 < Uiomae> yeah, me too
17:29 < creek23> err, what are those? XD
17:29 < Uiomae> well, I'm a games programmer, more or less, but with that card I get along
17:29 < Uiomae> creek23: what is what?
17:30 < creek23> 7200GS or 7200GT.
17:30 < Uiomae> Zelgadis: but maybe you'll have to update your drivers
17:30 < Uiomae> we're talking about nvidia cards
17:30 < creek23> Uiomae: you are? me too.
17:30 < creek23> but i have a really slow video card.
17:30 < Uiomae> yeah, but amateur, of course
17:30 < creek23> like just 256MB.
17:30 < Uiomae> hey, I think me too
17:30 < Uiomae> but for normal scenes doesn't matter
17:31 < creek23> just turned pro last year tho. :)
17:31 < Uiomae> hey, I want to do that
17:32 < creek23> which language are you using?
17:32 < Uiomae> a lot :P
17:32 < Uiomae> depending on the game
17:32 < Uiomae> currently, I'm working on ActionScript 3
17:32 < Uiomae> I don't like it
17:33 < Uiomae> but in the past I've mainly worked with C++
17:33 < creek23> Uiomae: you gotta hate AS3. but its what i use at work
17:33 < creek23> :)
17:33 < Uiomae> ajajaja
17:33 < Uiomae> I'm doing a GUI lib to work with it
17:33 < creek23> theres just few C++ game project right now.
17:34 < Uiomae> and a friend of mine is working on a messaging system
17:34 < creek23> most of the projects are Flash.
17:34 < Uiomae> we're only using AS3, not flash
17:34 < creek23> yeah, i mean AS3.
17:34 < Uiomae> we don't have any money right now :P
17:34 < Uiomae> we're using the Flex compiler
17:34 < creek23> same here.
17:35 < Uiomae> hehe, that's good
17:35 < creek23> but our company just bought some license of CS4.
17:35 < Uiomae> it's a bit expensive for my own taste :S
17:35 < creek23> i still have to get the copy that i'll use -- i work at home :)
17:36 < creek23> the company is earning quite a big amount of money, i say.
17:36 < Uiomae> hey, that's good
17:36 < Uiomae> even with this reccession
17:36 < creek23> yep. that's the good thing with outsourcing... :D
17:37 < Uiomae> jajaja
17:37 < creek23> they get us for cheap. but its quite big with exchange rate. :DDD
17:37 < creek23> Uiomae: what OS are you using?
17:38 < Uiomae> Linux mainly
17:38 < Uiomae> and you?
17:38 < creek23> what IDE are you using to write AS3?
17:38 < creek23> windows and/or ubuntu -- i write a crossplatform software; non-related to work.
17:39 < Uiomae> sometimes I get my brother PC and use Flashdevelop on Win, but when I'm here I use Vim :P
17:39 < Uiomae> not a GUI in the whole sense :P
17:39 < creek23> if only Ming and Gnash supports AS3.
17:40 < Uiomae> hey, but flash plugin also works on Linux
17:40 < Uiomae> rore: yours system also works good, of course
17:40 < creek23> yep, that stuff from Adobe.
17:41 < creek23> Uiomae: you said you do C++ before right?
17:41 < Uiomae> rore: but hey, your graphic driver needs an URGENT update xD
17:41 < Uiomae> yes
17:41 < Uiomae> it's my main language
17:42 < Uiomae> hey, just like Spanish xD
17:42 < rore> Uiomae: no - it works, I won't fix what's not broken :p (I'm too scared to get problems)
17:42 < Uiomae> jajaja, ok
17:42 < Uiomae> but 100.11 its TOO old
17:42 < creek23> Uiomae: are you into application software development?
17:42 < Uiomae> current is 180.22
17:42 < rore> maybe I'll try to make an effort ... one day ^^
17:42 < Uiomae> maybe OpenGL renderer won't work with such an outdated driver
17:42 < Uiomae> just maybe
17:42 < creek23> what's 100.11?
17:42 < Uiomae> you'll tell me, one day :P
17:43 < Uiomae> rore's version of nvidia driver :P
17:43 < creek23> oh.
17:43 < Uiomae> creek23: yes, I've done lot of apps in the past
17:43 < Uiomae> mainly cross platform
17:43 < Uiomae> lot ones not
17:43 < Uiomae> like some delphi ones
17:43 < creek23> :D
17:43 < Uiomae> and some in assembler
17:43 < Uiomae> don't remember me that ones xDD
17:43 < creek23> neven made ASM apps :P
17:43 < Uiomae> ASM it's cool
17:44 < Uiomae> in little doses
17:44 < Uiomae> :P
17:44 < creek23> yep, just no time to learn them.
17:44 < Uiomae> and are you too in app development?
17:44 < creek23> was. :)
17:44 < Uiomae> jeje
17:44 < Uiomae> what GUI were you using?
17:44 < creek23> and trying to get back since december.
17:45 < creek23> im learning Qt.
17:45 < creek23> GTK kept me from compiling stuff on windows.
17:45 < Uiomae> QT it's great
17:45 < Uiomae> I love it
17:45 < Uiomae> I've mainly used wxWidgets, but QT it's better in my opinion
17:46 < creek23> sure is.
17:46 < creek23> fully documented -- i guess.
17:46 < creek23> easy to work on that's for sure.
17:47 < Uiomae> yeah
18:05 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: i think im better off using work laptop instead, i posted the info on the forums
18:05 < Yoyobuae> glxinfo and glewinfo that is
18:07  * Zelgadis should hit the hay
18:07 < Zelgadis> bye!
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18:09 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: I've checked
18:09 < Uiomae> however, you're using mesa drivers
18:09 < Uiomae> all features are supported
18:09 < Uiomae> but don't know if they're accelerated
18:09 < Yoyobuae> hmm
18:12 < Uiomae> we've to try :)
18:15 -!- pixelgeek [n=chatzill@c-67-189-66-158.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #synfig
18:15 < pixelgeek> Ugh - what a morning
18:16 < pixelgeek> Some virus tried to reformat my hard drive - can you believe that?
18:16 < rore> again?!
18:16 < rore> Anyway, I hope everything went fine :)
18:16 < pixelgeek> And it looks like they came in through IRC!
18:16 < Yoyobuae> hehehe
18:17 < Yoyobuae> dont look at me =)
18:17 < rore> really? I can't believe it ^^ 
18:17 < Uiomae> OMG!
18:17 < Yoyobuae> * looks at Uiomae 
18:17  * Uiomae looks at rore
18:17  * Yoyobuae looks at Uiomae
18:17 < pixelgeek> Hmmmm...  Is something going on here?
18:17  * rore hides Yoyobuae and Uiomae under an invisibility cloak
18:18 < pixelgeek> Seems to be a lot of guilty people here.
18:18 < pixelgeek> Oh - there's just rore now
18:18 < rore> yeah, but I'm innocent ^^
18:18 < Uiomae> rore: you're the girl not easily scared, don't you?
18:18 < rore> I'm the manly girl! ... oh... wait ... 
18:20 < Uiomae> jeje
18:20 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: I've talked with genete about the meeting
18:21 < creek23> hmm... what meeting?
18:21 < Uiomae> also tried to contact dooglus, but he is a bit absent
18:21 < Uiomae> creek23: have you read the logs recently?
18:22 < creek23> i guess not.
18:22 < creek23> :D
18:22 < creek23> oh the renderer thing?
18:24 < rore> on the "we need a direction" thing, I think
18:24 < rore> (sorry I lost my compass)
18:24 < pixelgeek> Rore - did you check down the back of the sofa?
18:25 < Uiomae> yeah, the direction thing, manly girl
18:25 < pixelgeek> My glewinfo looks sad - more MISSING than OK.  :(
18:25 < Uiomae> jeje, don't worry
18:25 < Uiomae> if it support the good ones, it doesn't matter
18:25 < pixelgeek> Radeon 7200 for what it's worth
18:25 < Uiomae> uff
18:25 < Uiomae> :P
18:26 < Uiomae> I think you'll have to wait like Yoyobuae's desktop PC :P
18:27 < rore> pixelgeek: only some old pieces of peanuts and chips there 
18:27 < pixelgeek> My only complaint with it is that it does 16 & 32 bit color depths, but my monitor wants 24 bits
18:27 < Uiomae> rore: you didn't had to be THAT specific :S
18:27 < Uiomae> yeah, but 24 bit's it's slower
18:28 < Uiomae> and using 32 and discarding alpha have to work, I think
18:28 < pixelgeek> It seems happy at 16 bits
18:28 < Uiomae> good then
18:30 < pixelgeek> Hmmm...  there was some reason why it wasn't happy at 32, but I don't remmeber why - just switched it back.
18:30 < Uiomae> hey, if your monitor its happy, I'm happy too
18:33 < pixelgeek> Hmmm...  like you said - it's not handling transparency very well.  My icons have a whiteoutline around them
18:33 < Uiomae> ok, checked your glew, and as I've said you, you'll have to wait to use the OpenGL renderer :P
18:34 < Uiomae> yeah, you need 32 bit's for that
18:34 < Uiomae> and you'll notice some halos in the welcome screen
18:34 < Uiomae> the blue gradient is a bit crappy with 16 bits
18:34 < pixelgeek> Can I build a windows version for others with OpenGL?
18:35 < Uiomae> you can build it, but not run it
18:35 < pixelgeek> Just a wuestion of linking the right libs, yes?
18:35 < pixelgeek> Even if I can't test
18:35 < Uiomae> currently I'm fixing the Studio to work
18:35 < Uiomae> yeah
18:36 < Uiomae> only libs needed are glew
18:36 < Uiomae> and gl support, GL headers
18:36 < Uiomae> already present in your system, I guess
18:36 < pixelgeek> Any extra distributables needed?  Or do they come with the graphics drivers?
18:38 < pixelgeek> Oh for full duplex typing :)
18:38 < Uiomae> maybe some glew dll, but notthing more
18:38 < Uiomae> oh, yes
18:38 < Uiomae> for the studio, a few dlls are needed too
18:38 < Uiomae> gtkglextmm
18:38  * pixelgeek afk - got to pay attention to my son
18:38 < Uiomae> I hope it builds in windows, too
18:38 < Uiomae> of course ;)
18:39 < Uiomae> don't pay him too much!
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19:04 < Uiomae> okay, studio compiles again :)
19:07 < creek23> :)
19:57 < Uiomae> I've been thinking (yeah, I like to do that, sometimes) and I'll implement support for older cards like Yoyobuae and pixelgeek ones if we ever implement Yoyobuae idea of objects
19:57 < Uiomae> if we don't change that, I think it's not worth the extra-work
19:57 < pixelgeek> The nice thing about old PCs is sooner or later you don't have to worry about them....
19:58 < Uiomae> isn't that great?
19:58 < Uiomae> :)
19:58 < pixelgeek> You just post requirements that include Win 7 or above....
19:58 < Uiomae> ajajaja
19:58 < Uiomae> NEVER win 7!
19:58 < Uiomae> I'll explain myself
19:58 < pixelgeek> Oh come on, you know it's only Vista rebranded...
19:58 < Uiomae> I don't want to know
19:59 < Bombe> Is synfig-devl actively used for discussions or is it just a bin for tracker notifications?
19:59 < Uiomae> and I don't want to know why they just made 6 versions of it
19:59 < Uiomae> :P
19:59 < Uiomae> Bombe: do you mean the mail list?
19:59 < pixelgeek> kinda puts win 95 & win 2000 into perspective, doesn't it ;)
19:59 < Bombe> Uiomae, yes.
19:59 < pixelgeek> I haven't seen any meaningful discussions happen there
20:00 < pixelgeek> Mostly in IRC & forums
20:00 < Uiomae> yah, me too
20:00 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: that's a move I don't understand
20:00 < Uiomae> 6 versions?
20:00 < Bombe> Ah, yeah, I’ll use the forum, then.
20:00 < Uiomae> and the lower one could only handle 4 simultaneous apps?
20:01 < Uiomae> that has to be a joke :P
20:01 < pixelgeek> It's what happens when you have more marketing dollars than engineering dollars
20:02 < Uiomae> and its very funny that when they finally have a product that works (XP), without so many flaws
20:02 < pixelgeek> They have to come up with ideas like that to justify their salaries :)
20:02 < Uiomae> they do a next move and it's the WORST they've done ever!
20:02  * pixelgeek hugs XP
20:02 < Uiomae> yeah, maybe it's that :P
20:02 < pixelgeek> I thought they peaked at Win 95 SP2.  
20:03 < Uiomae> xD
20:03 < pixelgeek> But I have to agree that the NT core is a litle more stable
20:03 < pixelgeek> Sorry ^^ 98 SR2.
20:03 < pixelgeek> 95 was painful
20:03 < Uiomae> yes
20:03 < Uiomae> xDD
20:03 < Uiomae> that what I'm trying to say
20:04 < Uiomae> they had to rework their product a lot, from 95 to 98 to 2000-NT to XP
20:04 < Uiomae> and FINALY, XP worked like a charm
20:04 < Uiomae> but
20:04 < Uiomae> Vista...
20:04 < Uiomae> I don't know what happen xD
20:04 < Uiomae> it's like going up and suddenly falling off a cliff
20:04 < Uiomae> :P
20:06  * pixelgeek nods
20:06 < pixelgeek> "Let's just hide everything that everyone knows how to use to make it simpler"
20:06 < pixelgeek> except now you have to go digging for the things you know are still there, but hidden in a 'user friendly' gui or wizard
20:07 < Uiomae> yeah
20:08 < Uiomae> and let's warn the user every move he does that he is doing something!
20:09 < pixelgeek> "You can run in a user account" but you can't do anything without an admin password every two seconds
20:10 < Uiomae> yeah, great too
20:10 < pixelgeek> great times
20:10 < Uiomae> and LOT of programs don't work, even with an administrator account
20:11 < pixelgeek> I have a Vista machine at home, but just use it for a media server.  My XP machine is the one I use day-today.
20:11 < pixelgeek> The kids have a cheapy Vista machine too.  But half their games don't run on it. 
20:11 < Uiomae> I've tried Vista with my last job, and in some laptops I had to repair
20:11 < Uiomae> yeah, isn't that great?
20:12 < Uiomae> hey, have you tried running synfig in Vista?
20:36 < pixelgeek> Oh yes, it works fine.
20:36 < pixelgeek> (as well as under XP at any rate :) )
20:37 < Uiomae> great
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 16 00:00:41 2009