--- Log opened Mon Feb 16 00:00:41 2009
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01:59 < pixelgeek_> sweet!  Greetings from Haiku OS!
02:09 < factor> greetings
02:11 < Uiomae> hey, you finally trashed out win and tried on Haiku?
02:11 < Uiomae> what a change! xD
02:19 < krish> pixelgeek_: any reason for haiku only?
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02:38 < pixelgeek_> Been keeping an eye on it  - looking for something lightweight and speedy
02:38 < pixelgeek_> (and not prone to virii)
02:38 < pixelgeek_> Their current alpha has Firefox, and an IRC client
02:38 < pixelgeek_> What more do you need?
02:39 < pixelgeek_> Oh, yeah, GTK so you can run synfig, right?
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02:42 < pixelgeek_> eeek gcc 2.95.3!
02:50 < Uiomae> ufff
02:50 < Uiomae> better don't try that :P
02:50 < pixelgeek_> Indeed - even I know that's a bit out of date.  
02:51 < Uiomae> aajajaja
02:51 < Uiomae> you're a bit hard on yourself, don't you
02:51 < Uiomae> xD
02:54 < pixelgeek_> I think the term is 'self-deprecating'
02:54 < pixelgeek_> It's the Britishness in me.
02:54 < Uiomae> :P
02:55 < Uiomae> yeah, sometimes I also have some british-thing too
02:55 < Uiomae> xDD
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03:23 < pixelgeek> Ahah! http://www.beosnews.com/2009/02/02/haiku-gets-native-gcc4-toolchain/
03:38 < Uiomae> hey, that's better :)
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04:35 < Uiomae> bye people
04:35 < Uiomae> very late in here
04:35 < Uiomae> :)
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08:31 < genete> hey pixelgeek
08:32 < genete> if you are migrating from Windows to any other OS, why don't choose directly Linux? ;)
08:58 < pixelgeek> Maybe - but a thin distro
08:58 < pixelgeek> Maybe LFS :)
09:00 < genete> Thin distro +  i7 = fly!
09:02 < pixelgeek> That's the plan :)
09:02 < genete> well, you'll fly anyway with any linux + i7 ;)
09:03 < pixelgeek> Well, I need to do the opposite of my stickman animation
09:04 < genete> btw, I don't understand your comment on stickman animation. What did take long? animate it or render it? It seems to have only two keyframes so I don't understand the looong time it took...
09:06  * pabs3 would like to see Debian GNU/Haiku
09:06 < rore> hey 
09:06 < pixelgeek> There's about 5 keyframes
09:06 < rore> oh the stickman ... I forgot it
09:06 < pixelgeek> and I messed up somewhere in the middle
09:07 < pixelgeek> His head was sinking through the pillow before he woke up
09:07 < genete> OMG!  5 keyframes! you're crazy! :-P
09:07 < pixelgeek> I KNOW!
09:07 < genete> you need a Cray for that!!!!
09:08 < pixelgeek> Moin rore!
09:08 < rore> :)
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09:09 < rore> hehe the anim, 5 keyframes yes, huhu
09:09 < rore> http://fc92.deviantart.com/fs41/f/2009/045/0/d/Cthulgum_by_duskblue.jpg <--- how many frames needed for that? :D
09:11 < pixelgeek> About 5?
09:11 < pixelgeek> FHTAGN?
09:11 < rore> :)
09:12 < rore> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fhtagn 
09:12 < pixelgeek> Ah fhtagn  - Word which roughly translates to waits/dreams/sleeps in a long forgotten tongue. 
09:13 < pixelgeek> Silly me not knowing that.
09:13 < rore> well, there was a cthulhu comic once, and cthulhu wait saying fhtagn all the time :)
09:15 < pixelgeek> BTW pabs, I didn't mean to call you a dictator or imply that you didn't want to be one.  
09:15 < pixelgeek> Or um.....  Maybe I'll just take my feet out of my mouth now....
09:15 < pabs3> :)
09:15 < rore> http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/vault11.html
09:15 < rore> pixelgeek :D
09:22 < pixelgeek> 'night all
09:23 < Bombe> Good morning.
09:24 < genete> night
09:25 < genete> (maybe you can teach pixelbot to say: "Good night /nickname" when it listen any of those: night, good night, etc.)
09:33 < rore> noz vat :) (that will be my way to escape pixelbot goodnight. it's "good night" in breton)
09:38 < pabs3> Bombe: have you any experience with git submodules?
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09:53 < Bombe> pabs, not very much. I’m using them here at work for a couple of projects but haven’t done much that exceeds most basic usage.
09:54 < pabs3> I've got scripts for synfig svn -> 3 git repos, but have no experience with submodules though
09:55 < Bombe> Basically you create a new repository and add your submodules to it. Git then records and versions the current HEAD of each submodule.
09:58 < Bombe> That way you can easily tie the versions of each project to a „super-version“, e.g. for releases.
10:25 < genete> http://www.trophees-du-libre.org/content/blogcategory/22/57/
10:25 < genete> not so many competitors at the end! :)
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11:42 < rore> genete: yes, and all are very different software. It's funny how even inside a category there can be so many differences.
11:52 < genete> well, let's see what happen
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15:16 < Uiomae> hi people!
15:21 < Bombe> Hi, Uiomae.
15:21 < Uiomae> hi Bombe :)
15:21 < Uiomae> looking at your glx/glewinfo just right now
15:22 < Bombe> I hope it helps. :)
15:22 < Uiomae> seem you're using MESA for your home machine
15:22 < Uiomae> but you have an ati card
15:22 < Bombe> I’m using the open source ATI drivers.
15:22 < Uiomae> oh, I see
15:23 < Uiomae> don't know how the performance will be on those drivers
15:23 < Uiomae> pabs is also using mesa
15:23 < Bombe> Well, the notebook is already, like, five years old. But it can manage foobillard and Quake 4 (in 640x480) quite fine. :)
15:24 < Uiomae> I have a nVidia 7200GS, so your work machine will certainly work :)
15:24 < Uiomae> I see
15:24 < Uiomae> the problem is I'm using some relatively new extensions (2006 onwards) in the first batch of the renderer
15:25 < Uiomae> I'll do the change to some old extensions in a few weeks, maybe
15:25 < Uiomae> but without Yoyobuae idea of layer/objects the change might be bad
15:26 < Uiomae> and not worthwhile
15:26 < Uiomae> or whatever is said :P
15:26 < Bombe> Do you have your changes in a public repository somewhere?
15:26 < Uiomae> yeah, the git repos that dooglus set up
15:26 < Uiomae> wait
15:27 < Uiomae> http://repo.or.cz/w/synfig.git
15:27 < Uiomae> there
15:27 < Uiomae> only the CLI is working
15:27 < Uiomae> so don't use studio if you want to try it
15:27 < Uiomae> and right now, only text, region, outline, star, rectangle, circle and transformation layers (rotate, zoom and translate) works
15:28 < Uiomae> and solid color
15:29 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: how are you planning to use the older extensions?
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15:29 < Yoyobuae> i dont see how my idea has much to do with it
15:30 < Uiomae> because your idea is doing a rendering of lot of objects in one render, isn't it?
15:30 < Uiomae> far less blending
15:30 < krish> okay no problem. it was my idea
15:30 < krish> oh i thought the idea did something really good
15:30  * krish takes back his words
15:30 < Uiomae> krish: I don't understand you :S
15:31 < krish> Uiomae: never mind.
15:31 < krish> I blabber when I am hungry
15:31 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: oh, i see
15:31 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: right now, I'm using a technique to not dowload anything on CPU RAM
15:31 < Uiomae> all is done on GPU texture memory
15:31 < Yoyobuae>  FBOs is what you use for blending right?
15:31 < Uiomae> so data doesn't have to travel in the bus
15:32 < Uiomae> hmm, FBOs is what I'm using to store the data, for the blending I'm using fragment programs
15:32 < Uiomae> or shaders
15:32 < Yoyobuae> i see
15:32 < Uiomae> but without FBO support
15:32 < Uiomae> data has to travel between GPU and CPU EACH layer
15:33 < Uiomae> or EACH blending, if you like
15:33 < Uiomae> with the current model, there are a LOT of blending
15:33 < Yoyobuae> yes
15:33 < Uiomae> but without objects, blending is a lot lesser
15:34 < Uiomae> even with that bad scheme (doing travel each layer), improvements are possible
15:34 < Yoyobuae> yeah, anything would be better than the current software render xD
15:34 < Uiomae> but if I do it when your objects are implemented (if we finally do it, have to hear what others have to say :)) it will be more efficient
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15:35 < Uiomae> and I don't want to do it twice
15:35 < Uiomae> hi Zelgadis!
15:35 < Zelgadis> Greetings, Uiomae!
15:35 < Uiomae> Studio support is almost done :)
15:35 < Uiomae> so you'll be able to try in no time ;)
15:35 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: yeah, the objects thing would change how layers are rendered (the ones tha render vector objects tha tis)
15:36 < Zelgadis> coolio
15:36 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: yeah, but that ones are the problem
15:36 < Uiomae> almost all the filters don't need to travel back to CPU
15:36 < Uiomae> using shaders, of course
15:36 < Uiomae> if the cards also don't support shaders
15:36 < Uiomae> well, it's gonna be lot slower, of course :P
15:36 < Zelgadis> ooooooh sugoiiiii!!!!
15:37 < Uiomae> Zelgadis?
15:38 < Yoyobuae> Uiomae: yes but filters are usually fewer than the number of shapes :)
15:38 < Zelgadis> Sugoi - How to say awesome,great in Japanese
15:39 < Uiomae> Zelgadis: you don't go to sleep without learning something new, isn't it?
15:39 < Uiomae> :)
15:39 < Uiomae> Yoyobuae: yes, that's the problem :)
15:39 < Zelgadis> Well trying to. Something new and useful for me.
15:40 < Zelgadis> ^__^
15:40 < Uiomae> and for us in this case :)
15:40 < Uiomae> Sugoi!!
15:40 < Zelgadis> *____*
15:40 < Zelgadis> Uiomae: BTW, what is for synfig-osx dir in git tree?
15:40 < Yoyobuae> i need to make some time to finish that japanese course i started
15:40 < Yoyobuae> only did the basic course
15:40 < Uiomae> Zelgadis: don't know, haven't used it
15:41 < Uiomae> it only have something called "launcher"
15:41 < Zelgadis> OK, should ask dooglus or genete about that...
15:41 < Uiomae> or someone who uses the OSX port :P
15:42 < Uiomae> maybe it's some integration thing with OSX
15:42 < Uiomae> long time no use OSX, so I can't tell you
16:09 < Uiomae> Zelgadis: how's going Morevna?
16:19 < Zelgadis> Uiomae: Slowly, as usual, but it is moving!
16:19 < Zelgadis> And it will keep moving!
16:20 < Zelgadis> Lots of things depend from me now, that's why it is slow ^_^
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16:31 < Uiomae> jejeje
16:32 < Uiomae> don't worry
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17:00 < Zelgadis> BTW, I don't think what it worths to split git repo to submodules...
17:00 < Uiomae> why?
17:00 < Zelgadis> Because you need to commit four times instead of one, when making a  big change
17:01 < Uiomae> no, that's the goal of submodules
17:01 < Uiomae> when you do a commit in the main repo, the commit works for all the submodules
17:01 < Uiomae> AFAIK, of course
17:01 < Uiomae> I have used them long time ago, and can't remember very well, but I think that's how its suposed to be
17:02 < Uiomae> you could commit on the main or do separate commits
17:02 < Zelgadis> No. I'm using submodules in MP
17:03 < Zelgadis> You're doing separate commits in submodules. And then in superproject you commit the state of submodules.
17:03 < Zelgadis> http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitSubmoduleTutorial
17:03 < Uiomae> but if you do a commit on the superproject, it doesn't get commited to erach submodule?
17:05 < Uiomae> hmm, I see
17:05 < Uiomae> I though it worked like one repo only
17:05 < Zelgadis> superproject doesn't know anything about contents of submodules except their HEAD state
17:06 < Uiomae> so it's not a great idea, then
17:08 < Zelgadis> And AFAIK ETL/synfig/synfigstudio is heavily depend on each other. So making a valuable improvement of one implies changes in the rest.
17:09 < Uiomae> no, not really
17:09 < Uiomae> studio currently is dependant on synfig core, true
17:09 < Uiomae> but core is independat
17:10 < Uiomae> ETL is needed for both, true
17:10 < Zelgadis> Well, I meant that ~^_^~
17:10 < Uiomae> yeah, in the end...
17:10 < Zelgadis> one-direction dependence
17:12 < Uiomae> currently git state is fine for me
17:12 < Uiomae> all in one
17:12 < Zelgadis> yep
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18:06 < Uiomae> Bombe: did you try the OpenGL branch?
18:21 < Zelgadis> Today's WIP: http://www.23hq.com/MorevnaProject/photo/3936831
18:21 < Zelgadis> Bedtime, bye!
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18:24 < Uiomae> great Zelgadis :)
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19:24 < Uiomae> hi pixelgeek!
19:27 < Bombe> Uiomae, not yet.
19:28 < Uiomae> ok, tell me if you try it :)
19:28 < Uiomae> I've added plant layer
19:30 < pixelgeek> Hi Uiomae 
19:32 < Bombe> Hmm, I can not clone the repository.
19:33 < Uiomae> why?
19:34 < Uiomae> pixelgee: still in haiku? :)
19:34 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: still in haiku? :)
19:34 < Bombe> git tells me "warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout."
19:34 < pixelgeek> Not right now
19:35 < Uiomae> bombe: let me try
19:37 < Uiomae> yeah, it wanrs that
19:38 < Uiomae> but you enter the git repo, and do
19:38 < Uiomae> git checkout origin/uiomae_master
19:38 < Uiomae> and that's all
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20:05 < pixelgeek> Hi elk 
20:10 < elk> hello
20:19 < pixelgeek> Having fun?
20:25 < elk> not realy , trying to clean up the apartment :/
20:26 < pixelgeek> Ah yes - had that fun this morning - finally got a vacuum cleaner into my daughter's room
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20:29 < pixelgeek_> greetings from ReactOS...  
20:31 < Uiomae> hehe
20:31 < Uiomae> are you doing a trip from OS to OS?
20:32 < pixelgeek_> :)
20:33 < pixelgeek_> ReactOS boots soooo fast compared to XP
20:33 < pixelgeek_> It's getting to the point where it's becoming useful
20:33 < Uiomae> jeje, not surprising
20:33 < Uiomae> what is the status? I tried it several years ago
20:33 < Uiomae> it runs Quake? xD
20:33 < pixelgeek_> Well, it runs firefox 2.0 and Mirc
20:34 < pixelgeek_> haven't tried quake
20:34 < Uiomae> Synfig?
20:34 < pixelgeek_> was going to try GTK - just for grins
20:34 < Uiomae> :P
20:37 < elk> pixelgeek: havent got any daughters yet myself, but still, its no fun :)
20:41 < pixelgeek_> That's a bizarre bug - download stops until the mouse is moved
20:42 < Uiomae> maybe download not stops, but progress bar doesn't update until mouse moved?
20:44 < pixelgeek> It seemed to be directly proportional - wiggle the mouse, progress updates, stop, no update, wiggle again, progress continues.  There didn't seem to be a jump as the progress bar caught up.
20:44 < Uiomae> that's a good bug xD
20:45 < pixelgeek> It reminds me of those computer games where you had to click on the mouse or keyboard as fast as possible
20:47 < Bombe> Uiomae, yeah, got it already. Compiling now.
20:50 < Bombe> I don’t really like the structure of the repository but that’s mostly for cosmetical reasons... :)
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20:54 < Uiomae> what structure will do better in your opinion?
20:55 < Bombe> I’d split it up into three repositories. Also I wouldn’t include everyone’s “private” repositories in the “main” repository.
20:56 < Bombe> The need to collect everything in a single repository is sooooo non-distributed. :)
20:57 < Uiomae> what do you think it's the solution for the "private" repositories?
20:57 < Uiomae> we're really working on the same, and only a few branches exist, so we can easily merge
20:58 < Uiomae> also, why do you think 3 separate repositories are better?
20:58 < Uiomae> I only want to know your ideas, don't get me wrong :D
20:58 < Uiomae> I don't really see any advantage/disadvantage with 1 or 3 repositories
20:58 < Uiomae> for me, they work alike
21:00 < pixelgeek> Hmmm....  I get the same error message that others have reported on the forum.  
21:02 < pixelgeek> synfigstudio failed to start because libglibmm-2.4.-1.dll could not be found.  
21:02 < pixelgeek> Even though it's in the path
21:02 < Uiomae> you could use a grerat utility called procmon
21:02 < Uiomae> it tells you what files have been opened
21:02 < Uiomae> and which ones couldn't be found
21:05 < Bombe> Uiomae, having separate repositories is mostly a matter of convention, really...
21:06 < Bombe> Uiomae, every developer has his own repositories, a number of “private” ones that only he has access to, on his development machines, and a “public” one where he pushes his changes that he wants other people to see.
21:06 < Bombe> Other developers then pull from his public repository.
21:07 < Bombe> So, I finished compiling your opengl renderer. Does it work without any further configuration or do I have to change something?
21:07 < Uiomae> every developer has private repositories in their own machines, and later each developer has one public?
21:08 < Uiomae> because right now, every developer has one public repo too :)
21:08 < Uiomae> to make it work, you have to use the cli
21:08 < Uiomae> and specify -r 1 flag
21:08 < Uiomae> example
21:08 < Uiomae> synfig plants.sifz -r 1
21:08 < Uiomae> -r 0 is the software renderer, -r 1 is the OpenGL one
21:09 < Uiomae> please paste the output you get
21:09 < Uiomae> better in a private conversation or something
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21:11 < Uiomae> whops, wrong button :P
21:19 < pixelgeek> I hate it when that happens
21:20 < Uiomae> I hate it even more when the button I push is the "Power off" on my keyboard
21:20 < Uiomae> arghh
21:20 < Uiomae> it's just above arrow keys
21:20 < Uiomae> BAD place!
21:20 < pixelgeek> :)
21:26 < timonator> man, who the hell *buys* such keyboards?
21:26 < timonator> they are completely insane
21:27 < timonator> designed for people who look at the keyboard every time they want to hit a key and then look back at the screen to see wether or not it arrived in Word
21:27 -!- Yaco [n=Franco@201.255.242.115] has joined #synfig
21:28 < Uiomae> mine is a gift
21:28 < Bombe> Uiomae, now synfig crashes with an X error, even when using -r 0. :)
21:28 < Uiomae> of course I wouldn't buy something like this!
21:28 < Uiomae> I like a normal keyb with it's 105 keys
21:29 < Uiomae> Bombe: OpenGL it's initialized even if you select -r 0, that will explain
21:29 < Uiomae> what crash are you getting?
21:29 < Bombe> Okay, so the OpenGL renderer is not yet for me. :)
21:29 < Uiomae> OpenGL have to say which feature isn't supported
21:29 < pixelgeek> 101 keys here - just counted them
21:29 < Bombe> http://nopaste.org/p/aYvFpRUgi
21:30 < Bombe> No, I only get these four lines.
21:30 < Uiomae> pixelgeek: Spanish keyboard here ;)
21:31 < Uiomae> Bombe: I see. X server couldn't get a window
21:31 < Uiomae> but it's a bit strange
21:31 < Bombe> Uiomae, I hope that helps you. :)
21:31 < Uiomae> I check every move
21:32 < Uiomae> I think you didn't compile it with debug enabled, isn't it? :P
21:32 < Bombe> Oops.
21:32 < Bombe> :)
21:32 < Uiomae> don't worry :)
21:32 < Uiomae> what card are you using?
21:32 < Uiomae> your ATI one, isn't it?
21:33 < Bombe> Recompiling...
21:33 < Bombe> Yes, that’s the ATI one.
21:33 < Uiomae> yeah
21:33 < Uiomae> Mesa drivers, haven't tested them
21:33 < Uiomae> I hope Ati ones will work better if someone try :P
21:35 < Bombe> I’m happy that I got these working here. I used to have the ATI drivers but after a reinstall (with same program versions and saved config files) I couldn’t get them working anymore.
21:36 < Uiomae> jejeje, I also had lot of troubles with an ATI card on Linux in my last job
21:36 < Uiomae> that fglrx driver doesn't work without flaws
21:36 < Bombe> It used to work flawlessly for years—until the reinstall. :)
21:37 < Uiomae> lucky you, more or less :P
21:37 < Bombe> I figured that much. :)
21:46 < Bombe> synfig(15350) [21:46:05] info: renderer_opengl_config.cpp: Multisampling it's unsupported!
21:46 < Bombe> That’s what I get before it crahes.
21:46 < Bombe> s,crah,crash,
21:48 < Uiomae> multisampling
21:49 < Uiomae> but this time you didn¡'t get the X error,then?
21:49 < Bombe> Yes, I did.
21:49 < Uiomae> oh, I see
21:50 < Uiomae> I only put the debug messages when debugging xD
21:51 < Uiomae> if you can, try changing in line 135 of renderer_opengl_config.cpp the 24 to a 16
21:51 < Uiomae> maybe with less depth...
21:53 -!- xerakko [n=Miguel@debian/developer/xerakko] has joined #synfig
21:53 < Bombe> Nope, same output.
21:55 < Uiomae> what is your current resolution / depth?
22:04 < Bombe> 1280x1024x24.
22:04 < Uiomae> almost same as mine, but I'm using 32
22:04 < Uiomae> I don't really know what is failing
22:05 < Bombe> Well, I’m not 100% sure about the 24. How do I find out?
22:05 -!- genete [n=carlos@79.108.35.41.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #synfig
22:05 < Bombe> Hey, genete.
22:06 < Uiomae> don't know, I usually check on kcontrol of KDE
22:06 < Uiomae> hi genete
22:07 < genete> phone... :)
22:08 < Bombe> Hmm, no, kcontrol doesn’t really help here.
22:08 < Bombe> (**) RADEON(0): Depth 24, (--) framebuffer bpp 32
22:09 < Bombe> From the Xorg log.
22:09 < Uiomae> hmm, different depths
22:09 < Uiomae> that's a bit weird
22:10 < Uiomae> but I don't think that's the reason, 24 and 32 depth are both fine
22:11 < Uiomae> I'll have to better study xlib documentation, then :P
22:24 < genete> long conversation yeah! :9
22:27 -!- genete [n=carlos@79.108.35.41.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #synfig []
22:28 -!- genete [n=carlos@79.108.35.41.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #synfig
22:36 < Bombe> Uiomae, I have a modification in po/POTFILES.in, if you’re interested, pull git://git.pterodactylus.net/synfig-public.git bombe/master. :)
23:00 -!- rubikcube [n=kvirc@dslb-088-070-027-105.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #synfig
23:11 < genete> Does anyone understand the posts of 00Synfig in the forum? My English is bad but I cannot understand two words together. =)
23:11 < Bombe> Haha, I just thought the same thing... ;)
23:36 < Bombe> 00Synfig has struck again.
23:36 < Bombe> I’m really stumped as to what he wants to say.
23:40 < genete> He/She seems to be Italian for some expressions I can see there. This is the weirdest post I've never seen.
23:44 < genete> Bombe: :-P
23:50 < rore> genete: are you saying that because he uses no "," - which gives the impression he talks fast, like ... italian (or spanish :p) people ? :D
23:50  * rore hides
23:51 < genete> So that I should understand it better! :)
23:52 < rore> it looks almost as if he used an automatic translator 
23:53 < rore> "the blender used to string the vertices in the building" <--- I love that part 
23:54 < genete> yeah, but it seems that he uses the translator only in one direction xD
23:54 < rore> heh, it's from telecomitalia.it, you're good at guessing nationalities genete :)
23:54 < genete> yeah :)
23:58 < rore> (even though I don't speak italian I think I may understand what he says more easily if he just wrote it in italian. Those translations are just ... blarrrrgghhh)
--- Log closed Tue Feb 17 00:00:47 2009