--- Log opened Mon Mar 09 00:00:38 2009
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04:14 < pixelgeek> Hmmm... quiet day.  
04:14 < pixelgeek> Good night!
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04:33 < nikitakit> Hello
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04:51 < w0lver1n3> anyones done the march challenge?
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06:20 < krish> heya
06:20 < krish> import svg availabe?
06:20 < pixelbot> http://synfig.org/Svg2synfig or http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11
06:20 < krish> whoa
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13:59 < genete> hey there
14:00 < Zelgadis> Hey, genete!
14:05 < genete> This evening I'm going to make first layer stack for head turn
14:05 < Zelgadis> Cool!
14:06 < Zelgadis> I made animatic and draft keyframes for scene 21.
14:07 < genete> any link? I cannot access synfig now.
14:07 < genete> about layer stack for head turn, I want to prepare it carefully to avoid double work
14:11 < CIA-47> MorevnaProject: Konstantin Dmitriev master * r66ec9cd8e23c demo/20/Makefile: 20: Added dependencies in Makefile.
14:11 < CIA-47> MorevnaProject: Konstantin Dmitriev master * rbd2a55c50d3d demo/ (9 files in 2 dirs): 21: Animatic - first try.
14:11 < CIA-47> MorevnaProject: Konstantin Dmitriev master * ra3262785fb09 demo/ (21/21-composition.sif 21/21.sif demo.blend): 21: Second version of animatic. Fixed paths to relative in montage.
14:12 < Zelgadis> genete: No, no link for now. Just pushed into repo.
14:12 < genete> ok, I'll pull them when I'm at home. 
14:13 < genete> Is #22 so moved? I mean is there much animation on it?
14:13 < AkhIL> yah... animation is not real cinema... transfering 50GB of footage much more interesting task 8/
14:14 < Zelgadis> genete: What do you mean by "so moved"?
14:15 < genete> oh, again bas Spanish to English translation :)
14:15 < genete> bad*
14:15 < Zelgadis> ^_^
14:16 < genete> I mean, is the scene 22 like a static frame or like a head turn?
14:16 < Zelgadis> 22 or 21?
14:16 < genete> ah oh, 21 ^__^
14:17 < Zelgadis> 21 more like static. Initially Ivan had 5 poses there. Today I corrected animatic and reduced count of "poses" to 2. ^___^
14:25 < genete> Zelgadis wrote: "The source file is structured well, I was surprised to see your method of coloring black lines. That was new to me." in the forum. I'm curious on that because I don't see nothing special there
14:26 < Zelgadis> genete: Remember I talking about the merging two draft images one on top of another?
14:27 < Zelgadis> http://download.tuxfamily.org/morevna/blog/2009/03/frame1-300x265.png
14:27 < genete> yes I remember
14:29 < genete> (I need to go but will catch the logs)
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14:30 < Zelgadis> I have used to apply Brighten Blend Method to the image on top of red square.
14:30 < Zelgadis> He applied Screen blend method to the Solid Color layer on top of image.
14:31 < Zelgadis> It looks more flexible for me.
14:32 < Zelgadis> Because if you want return to black lines on image, it's easier to hide red Solid Color layer (second approach) than set Composite blend method on image (first approach).
14:32 < Zelgadis> And it was the first time I saw the use of solid color. ^__^
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16:29 < CIA-47> MorevnaProject: Konstantin Dmitriev master * r1cb390198d31 demo/ (21/21-composition.sif 21/21.sif demo.blend): 21: No excessive shaking of camera and background.
16:30 < CIA-47> MorevnaProject: Konstantin Dmitriev master * rf125a39d3782 production/ (demo lib/camera-view.sif): Added camera view template into library.
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16:33 < genete> Zelgadis: still there?
16:33 < Zelgadis> yep
16:33 < Zelgadis> at your service
16:34 < genete> I wonder how's Morevna's nose in the profile, specifically the outlines. 
16:34 < genete> should it be completely outlined?
16:35 < Zelgadis> sha-lalala http://morevnaproject.org/2008/11/14/marya-morevna-character-layout/
16:36 < genete> Hmm
16:36 < Zelgadis> Not th\at?
16:36 < genete> some tricks needed there :)
16:36 < genete> yes
16:36 < genete> it is more than enough
16:37 < Zelgadis> Yes, could be tricky
16:37 < Zelgadis> I use the overlapping region on top of outlines i need to hide.
16:37 < genete> yeah
16:38 < genete> about last two keyframes. The one before the last, is mainly surprise, right? and the last one is mainly sad or fear?
16:39 < genete> I wrote the keyframe's names in the sif file but I think you corrected one of them
16:40 < Zelgadis> one before last is a expression like she is hitting someone
16:40 < Zelgadis> last one is surprise and fear
16:41 < genete> ok, got it.
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17:56 < CIA-47> MorevnaProject: Konstantin Dmitriev master * r66da555cf6d3 demo/Makefile: 21: Added scene to global Makefile.
17:56 < CIA-47> MorevnaProject: Konstantin Dmitriev master * rf4b26b116a93 demo/ (33/33.sif 33/Makefile Makefile demo.blend): 33: Animatic.
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18:42 < Yoyobuae> genete: "< Zelgadis> I use the overlapping region on top of outlines i need to hide."
18:42 < Yoyobuae> there needs to be a better way than this :P
18:42 < Yoyobuae> when an outline needs to disappear, it should shrink all the way down to nothing-ness
18:42 < Yoyobuae> there isn't a way to do this in Synfig at the moment (at least not one that doesn't require lots of effort)
18:44 < genete> nowadays it is possible to turn on/off the blinepoints.
18:44 < genete> but it requires a lot of coordination
18:44 < genete> hide the outline using a overlaping region is "easier" for the animation point of view
18:46 < Yoyobuae> thats why i want to be able to include/exclude blinepoints dynamically from a bline
18:46 < genete> but that exists already
18:46 < genete> See Dynamic Lists =)
18:46 < Yoyobuae> on/off blinepoints dont count :P
18:46 < genete> why?
18:47 < Yoyobuae> "< genete> but it requires a lot of coordination"
18:47 < AkhIL> another way is using gradient on curve and doing threshold 
18:47 < Yoyobuae> too much for such a simple effect =/
18:47 < AkhIL> white at start and black at end.
18:49 < genete> When I finish the head turn in the "traditional" way you can see the "other ways". In each case is different IMHO
18:50 < Yoyobuae> yeah, sure
18:50  * AkhIL want audio support in synfig
18:50 < Yoyobuae> for now there isnt much choice
18:51 < genete> the non refreshing bug is annoying me so much :(
18:52 < Yoyobuae> but we if we could:
18:52 < Yoyobuae> A) Cut a bline at any point
18:52 < Yoyobuae> B) Get rid of all the unneeded blinepoints
18:52 < Yoyobuae> s/ B) / B ) /
18:53 < Yoyobuae> things would be better
18:53 < Yoyobuae> just need a to provide a single number, telling where to make the cut
18:53 < Yoyobuae> gonna go have lunch, later xD
18:54 < genete> In my case the bline is cut in two places
18:54 < genete> because it is looped
19:29 < Yoyobuae> genete: then there would be 2 cuts = 2 numbers =D
19:29 < genete> and also tell it which piece to cut
19:29 < Yoyobuae> and if those numbers can be animatable, blines could be animated to grow/shrink
19:30 < Yoyobuae> remember the "Link to bline"
19:30 < Yoyobuae> theres only one number to tell where to link
19:30 < Yoyobuae> between 0.0 and 1.0
19:30 < genete> conceptually it is the same than the idea of make independent the width fmor the blinepoints
19:31 < genete> now, the width belongs to the blinepoint and it should be something  similar to a link to bline
19:32 < genete> Zelgadis pointed it out long time ago and darco mentioned me too once
19:33 < genete> http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=322 about 00:51
19:33 < Yoyobuae> yes if a "width duck" could be moved along the bline then it would be possible to achieve a "shrink/grow" effect
19:34 < Yoyobuae> but even setting the width to zero, the hidden piece of the bline is still there to the synfig's engine
19:35 < genete> the original intention of that method is not animated hide lines, but more efficient variable width
19:35 < Yoyobuae> if for example, there is something linked to the bline part that is "hidden" then it will seem be linked to nothing
19:36 < Yoyobuae> i agree, width should be separated from blinepoints
19:37 < Yoyobuae> the way blines where made, a lot of things got implemented on top of blines
19:37 < Yoyobuae> now all those things are stuck together 
19:39 < genete> brb
19:52 < Yoyobuae> genete: interesting conversation you had with darco there
19:54 < Yoyobuae> specially that part of not using layers just to display the UI to bones
19:56 < Yoyobuae> he is right about not using layers for that
19:56 < genete> I know that using a layer for the skeleton is a workaround. But we didn't have a quick or easy replacement for bones interface, so...
19:56 < Yoyobuae> but maybe we need something else to fill in that job ;)
19:57 < genete> in any case it can be a separated panel and the rest still being valid
19:57 < Yoyobuae> but are we gonna keep adding panels each time we add a new feature like bones?
19:58 < Yoyobuae> IMO, you two were both right.
19:58 < Yoyobuae> the skeleton shouldn't be a layer
19:58 < Yoyobuae> and layers have a rather nice interface with parameters/ducks and everything
19:58 < Yoyobuae> the problem is that a skeleton = 100% vectors
19:59 < Yoyobuae> layers = mostly raster
19:59 < genete> don't forget the ducks
19:59 < genete> the ducks of the skeletons are transformed
20:00 < genete> so the skeleton layer position is important to see the ducks in the right scale, position and rotation
20:00 < Yoyobuae> thats is why i dont think skeleton should be a layer
20:00 < Yoyobuae> shouldnt
20:01 < genete> ah
20:01 < Yoyobuae> oh wait, double negative xD
20:01 < genete> shouldn't*
20:01 < genete> he
20:01 < genete> he
20:01 < genete> repeat please :)
20:01 < Yoyobuae> skeleton not layer
20:01 < Yoyobuae> there, simplicity to the rescue
20:02 < genete> brb
20:05 < Yoyobuae> well, what i wanted to say is: something like a layer (with all its user interface) but meant to control pure vector data could be a good idea
20:09 < Yoyobuae> but then the bones and the shapes affected by the bones need to "stay together"
20:09 < Yoyobuae> or else along comes a transformation layer and destroys the bone <--> shape correlation
20:15 < Yoyobuae> i'm starting to think that maybe we're doing everything backwards
20:16 < Yoyobuae> drawing a whole (static) character first, and then trying to add bones and things to animate it
20:16 < Yoyobuae> it's not working very well =/
20:17 < Yoyobuae> imagine making a rigid puppet first, then making it move
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 10 00:00:43 2009