--- Log opened Wed Mar 18 00:00:06 2009
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00:21 < nikitakit> Hello
00:21 < genete> hi nikitakit
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00:22 < nikitakit> hey. So you gotrid of that bug?
00:22 < genete> Zelgadis narrowed it, dooglus and I confirmed and I commited (revert) the bad revision to its original status
00:23 < genete> but I see that there is a remaining bug there
00:23 < nikitakit> Revert? Does that mean that some functionality is gone?
00:23 < genete> no, it was a WIP commit form pabs. It didn't add any feature in that commit.
00:27 < nikitakit> Wait... just four lines of code caused so much problems? I think I'm misunderstanding something
00:28 < genete> coding synfig is in that way :)
00:30 < nikitakit> :) Also I'm interested why the "Canvases" panel always pops out when I open a new file
00:30 < nikitakit> I've found the panel rather useless
00:30 < genete> the canvases one?
00:31 < nikitakit> Yes. The one with the blue circle as an icon
00:31 < genete> Oh it is very useful when you know what does it do
00:33 < nikitakit> It's interesting all right
00:33 < nikitakit> But layers have sufficed for me
00:37 < nikitakit> I always end up having to kill the canvas browser each time I open a file
00:38 < genete> I don't understand what does "pops out" when you open a new file. I don't notice nothing new. Maybe you haven't it docked and it pops up every time you add a new canvas on it?
00:39 < nikitakit> Yes. I exited the panel (by clicking the "x") but my expectations of having it go away forever were not met
00:40 < genete> I see. Better to hide it behind other panel and that's all
00:41 < genete> you can have more than one canvas there in the same document
00:41 < nikitakit> Yes, I understand
00:41 < genete> check demo/21/21-composition.sif
00:42 < nikitakit> but I think that's only useful in the animation/compositing phase
00:42 < genete> it is very useful for some situations
00:42 < genete> well, Synfig is for animation/composition, right? ;)
00:42 < nikitakit> Of course! But it does art, too
00:44 < genete> well, even doing art only you can find useful the exported canvases. Imagine that you want to create a pattern. Would you draw the pattern figure every time? Export the pattern and use it in several paste canvases ;)
00:45 < nikitakit> Of course, of course... I'm just taking out my frustrations with the GUI
00:46 < nikitakit> It's especially nasty on a small-screen tablet
00:47 < genete> if you know well the shortcuts you won't need any of the panels or the toolbox. Everything is accesible from the main window. Maximize it and enjoy!
00:47 < nikitakit> What about layers and values?
00:48 < genete> I'm  talking on drawing
00:48 < genete> esencially you need only the color dialog
00:49 < genete> essentially*
00:50 < nikitakit> Q: if I have morevna packages, can I compile studio alone from source?
00:51 < genete> from sources you'll need to install make install etl, synfig-core and synfig-studio, in that order
00:51 < genete> and you can place it where you want
00:52 < genete> just tell it to the environmental variables
00:52 < nikitakit> so a deb package won't meet the dependencies for SVN compile?
00:52 < genete> before configure
00:52 < genete> no
00:52 < genete> the debian package just meet the runtime dependences
00:53 < genete> not the development packages (dev) that you need to build synfig from source
00:53 < genete> and morevna's package is very permissive on runtime dependences. It basically runs with so few dependences
00:54 < genete> oops! bed time!
00:54 < genete> see you tomorrow
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00:54 < nikitakit> oh ok
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08:46 < genete> moin, moin
08:54 < rore> moinnn
08:54 < rore> note to self: remember there's only 31 days in March - and remember the boucing ball challenge
09:02 < genete> aaah!, good point! luckily May has 35 days! :)
09:02 < genete> and rore: do you read the past logs? :P
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09:49 < rore> didn't yet
09:58 < rore> I suppose I didn't read them from far enought in time, nothing seems to deserve a ":P" there 
10:25 < genete> rore: do you keep some code skills?
10:28 < rore> errr... not in C++ :p 
10:28 < genete> I'm surre you'll agree with me (it is mainly C)
10:28 < genete> do you have the source code around?
10:29 < genete> oh better, I'll give you a link
10:31 < rore> ok - I have the source code around, but from an ooold revision :)
10:31 < genete> http://synfig.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/synfig/synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/workarea.cpp?revision=2353&view=markup&pathrev=2353
10:32 < genete> look a the member function at line 416
10:33 < genete> the condition: if(!onionskin) return; shouldn't be BEFORE line 422?
10:33 < genete> it seems to launch a onion skin queue regardeless it is enabled or not
10:35 < genete> same file in similar member function but for tile render in line 12o and followings. There isn't any condition to check whether the onion skin is set or not!
10:35 < rore> I suppose so. (Althought, maybe it just does nothing, even if onion_skin_queue.push_back(time) happends before or after the test. )
10:35 < genete> it does
10:36 < genete> I've commented that line and enabled the onionskin and it doesn't draw the current frame
10:36 < rore> ha, if it really does something, yes ... the condition should be before ^^. What is strange is that there's the 1st puck_back call, then the 2 commented lines, then the condition, and then it tries to do what was in the commented lines. 
10:37 < genete> not exaclty. The commented lines are one second after and one second before, and the lines within the try... catch search for the keyframes marks.
10:38 < rore> ah yes... well, I just read that they where a little before and a little after, but I didn't look very closely
10:38 < rore> <genete> I've commented that line and enabled the onionskin and it doesn't draw the current frame <---- that line?
10:39 < genete> I've commented the line that is before the if(!onioskin)
10:39 < genete> the one that throws a onionskin queue for the current time
10:41 < rore> ok. So it must be kept in that order? (well, if commenting that keeps from drawing the current frame - If I didn't understand all wrong)
10:41 < genete> I think that the right order is:
10:41 < genete> 1) check whether the onionskin is set, if not set then do nothing
10:42 < genete> 2) launch a queue for the current time
10:42 < genete> 3) search first past keyframe and launch a onionskin queue for that past time
10:42 < genete> 4) do the same for first future keyframe
10:44 < rore> ok. from your previous sentences I thought that the "do nothing" actually really did nothing, and that the canvas wasn't even draw if onionskin wasn"t enabled
10:45 < genete> that's the problem. I don't know what does the onion skin queue do. I have to look the code of that but I guess I'll get lost in the signal world
10:46 < genete> current status is that it do nothing only after launch one onionskin queue (in scanline render). But in tile render it doesn't!
10:48 < rore> (oh the signal world... I understand what you mean... *dies*)
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11:36 < genete> morning Morevna's dictator! 
11:36 < genete> oops! I mean "director" :D
11:40 < Zelgadis> Hi, Synfig director!
11:40 < Zelgadis> Ooops, I mean dictator. ^_^
11:47 < genete> :D
11:48 < genete> yesterday I commited the change to fix the bug. 
12:47 < Zelgadis> Yeah, I noticed
13:09 < genete> Zelgadis: also yesterday I tried to upload more files to Morevna's wiki and finnaly I gave up. It said Server error after several minutes waiting the upoload...
13:39 < Zelgadis> Hmmm...
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13:40 < genete> can you see the error logs in apache server? (that's what the message said)
13:41 < Zelgadis> I could try when I will be at home.
13:41 < Zelgadis> genete: Could you send me those files by e-mail?
13:41 < Zelgadis> Hi, nikitakit!
13:42 < nikitakit> Hey Zelgadis, genete
13:48 < genete> yes, later when I arrive home
13:59 < genete> HI nikitakit 
14:00 < nikitakit> hello
14:00 < genete> happier with synfig interface, nikitakit ?
14:01 < nikitakit> (?) I must admit it works better on a larger screen
14:02 < genete> nikitakit: did you know that the CTRL + mouse wheel allows quick zoom in/out?
14:03 < genete> and left+right buttons at the same time allows pan?
14:03 < nikitakit> Now I know. I used hold-and-drag most of the time.
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14:11 < rore> (hmm, a spam message with "{spamit_subj}" as a subject ... does that mean that the spammer didn't even write a correct spam program? )
14:12 < nikitakit> Or, more likely, the spammer doesn't know how to use someone else's... wow
14:19 < rore> one of the rare spam that made me laugh :) (the spam about Valentine day received almost one month after that day were kinda funny too)
14:30 < Zelgadis> I wonder, can synfig use text from external text files
14:31 < Zelgadis> It would be cool to try to make it use text from .po files.
14:33 < Zelgadis> So if we have caption "Club" on screen, at the moment of rendering synfig will automatically substitute this word with string from translation file according to current locale ^___^.
14:34 < Zelgadis> I'm on my way home. Till later!
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14:35 < genete> I think that the "text" parameter should handle a text file instead a text string
14:36 < nikitakit> Text files would be nice, but they can be a bloat
14:36 < nikitakit> maybe allow import of a ".lst" into a text layer
14:38 < nikitakit> Bye!
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16:17 < genete> Zelgadis: it seems that the wiki is working now
16:18 < Zelgadis> good to hear. I have no access to apache's error_log
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16:26 < genete> aaah! the problem of the preview of the image was its format in the wiki text! I wrote "|200px]]" instead of "|200 px]]"
16:27 < Zelgadis> That's strange, 200px worked for me everywhere before...
16:27 < genete> it is weird yes
16:28 < Zelgadis> coincidence?
16:28 < genete> maybe
16:28 < Zelgadis> советник
16:28 < Zelgadis> Ooops... wrong window
16:29 < genete> don't tell me that you've addressed your own IRC channel!!
16:30 < Zelgadis> no.
16:31 < Zelgadis> I'm reviewing latest changes in screenplay translation
16:31 < Zelgadis> Pasted here instead of dictionary window
16:31 < Zelgadis> ALT+TAB, CTRL+V, Enter, you know...
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17:29 < stonerfish> Hello there folks.  I am working my way through the tutorials at 
17:30 < stonerfish> http://synfig.org/Tutorials
17:30 < genete> hi stonerfish, that's a good start :)
17:30 < stonerfish> The snowflake tutorial mentions a "Duplicate Layer"
17:30 < CIA-47> MorevnaProject: Carlos Lopez master * r2868dbd67d43 demo/21/21-composition.sif: 21: Added some movements to both keyframes
17:31 < genete> stonerfish: yes
17:31 < stonerfish> I can't see to find it.  Is it not implemented on my version of synfig  0.16.07  ?
17:31 < Zelgadis> No it isn't there. 0.61.07 is too old
17:32 < genete> 0.61.07 you mean. Oh current release is 0.61.09 and lots of features you are missing!
17:32 < genete> check out the topic link
17:32 < stonerfish> OK, then I guess I will dump the version ubuntu gives me, and compile it from source
17:33 < genete> ubuntu wich version?
17:33 < stonerfish> 8.04
17:34 < stonerfish> When I look at the synfig download site, I see a link for "ETL" what does that mean?
17:34 < genete> Extended Template Library
17:34 < genete> doesn't produce any binary, just code templates 
17:34 < genete> but it is needed for building
17:35 < stonerfish> OK.  So I need that and the source for synfig and synfigstudio
17:35 < genete> stonerfish: although you're on 8.04 you can check out the forum link for 8.10
17:35 < pixelbot> For information on Synfig on Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid Ibex see http://synfig.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=277
17:35 < genete> as provided by the bot
17:36 < genete> in the first post there is a couple of binaries links for ubuntu that works fine without need to compile it from sources
17:36 < genete> the one from Zelgadis is very nice
17:38 < stonerfish> I don't mind compiling.  I will work on that in an hour or two and come back here if I need help.
17:38 < stonerfish> Thanks
17:39 < genete> then be sure that you get all the devel packages before start configurein/compiling anithing
17:40 < stonerfish> yes
17:42 < stonerfish> These packages right?    libxml++2.6-dev libsigc++-2.0-dev libltdl3-dev libtool gettext cvs libpng12-dev libmng-dev libjpeg62-dev libfreetype6-dev libfontconfig1-dev libopenexr-dev libavcodec-dev libavformat-dev libmagick++9-dev libdv-bin ffmpeg imagemagick libgtkmm-2.4-dev libgtk2.0-dev libglibmm-2.4-dev libsigc++-2.0-dev libltdl3-dev libtool gettext cvs ttf-freefont ttf-dejavu ttf-dustin
17:42 < genete> don't pretend I remember all them! :) just check them in the post of the forum I triggered ;)
17:43 < stonerfish> I just cut and pasted from that forum to here.  My apt-get is working now.
17:44 < genete> maybe you have to revise some of them because they are from a 8dot10 ubuntu machine
17:45 < stonerfish> When I do my compiling, I will check for any errors, and update any packages that need it.
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17:49 < stonerfish> Ubuntu is point and click easy, but when something is outdated, it can be a pain to compile the newer version.  A couple years ago I built my own system from scratch *LFS*.  Adding current versions of software to that system was easier to deal with, but did take more time.
17:50 < genete> so you're an experienced linux user. Won't have much problems to build it by yourself (as far as I did it and I'm still a newbie ;))
17:51 < stonerfish> We'll see.  If I don't have the required versions of all the dependencies it may be tough.
17:51 < stonerfish> Updating something manually make break something else.  8(
17:51 < Zelgadis> In 8.04 you do have
17:52 < stonerfish> Thanks zelgadis.  I should have no problem then.
17:52 < genete> don't worry. Before I upgrade to 8.04 I was at 6.04 and I compiled it!
17:52 < stonerfish> Ok, talk to you later.
17:52 < genete> 6.10 sorry
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18:00 < genete> hi Yoyobuae
18:13 < Yoyobuae> hi
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18:15 < genete> Yoyobuae: did you catch the logs?
18:16 < Yoyobuae> yep
18:16 < genete> what about the conversation that rore and I had?
18:16 < Yoyobuae> yes, that too
18:16 < genete> do you see the problem on the workarea.cpp file?
18:16 < Yoyobuae> i havent checked the code though
18:17 < Yoyobuae> the bones branch should have that right?
18:17 < genete> I guess so
18:18 < genete> but you can visit the link for the latest file version
18:23 < Yoyobuae> genete: id rather view code with vim on the terminal =)
18:27 < genete> bones version is the same than the current svn
18:42 < Yoyobuae> genete: i think the code is right as it is
18:43 < Yoyobuae> when onion skin is off, there only one thing in onion_skin_queue, the current frame
18:43 < Yoyobuae> when onion skin is turned on, then the previous keyframe and the next are added to the queue
18:43 < genete> but it is not needed! when it is off there is not need to trow any onionsking queue
18:44 < Yoyobuae> when there's one thing in the onion_skin_queue it just renders normally
18:44 < genete> I've compiled it placing the current time onionskin AFTER the if(!onionskin) return; and it works fine too
18:44 < Yoyobuae> the code ONLY renders whats on the onion_skin_queue
18:45 < genete> but look to the version at lines 120 and following
18:45 < genete> there is not a if(!onionskin) retrurn; there!
18:46 < Yoyobuae> yes, it's probably missing there
18:46 < genete> when using tile render ALWAYS queues the previous and the next keyframes
18:46 < genete> but how the hell does it works fine?!
18:46 < genete> or it doesn't?
18:47 < genete> sometimes I experiment wrong tiles when editing the compostion in the middle of two keyframes
18:47 < Yoyobuae> maybe there's a condition somewhere else that ignores the prev/next keyframes on the queue
18:47 < genete> Hmmm
18:48 < Yoyobuae> there are several places with if(!onionskin)
18:50 < genete> anyway, why queue something that NEVER will be rendered?
18:51 < Yoyobuae> yeah, that could cause problems
18:52 < genete> like the last bug! :)
18:52 < Yoyobuae> things being pushed into a stack, but never popped
18:52 < genete> need to go, ttyl. Sorry :-/
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20:52 < stonerfish> g
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21:54 < pixelgeek> moin everyone
21:55 < genete> moin
21:55 < genete> moinvening here ;)
21:58 < CIA-47> synfig: genete * r2354 /synfig-studio/trunk/src/gtkmm/workarea.cpp: Don't push back any onion skin queue unless onionskin boolean is set to true.
22:00 < pixelgeek> so I finally did it. 
22:01 < pixelgeek> I ordered myself a core i7 based PC.
22:01 < genete> woohoo!
22:02 < genete> when would it be at home?
22:03 < genete> (new demo reel!)
22:05 < pixelgeek> Somewhere between 4/7 & 4/15.   
22:06 < pixelgeek> The question is - how long before I can get it running everything I want it to
22:06 < pixelgeek> How long will it take before I can rebuild synfig on it?  
22:07 < pixelgeek> 64 bit windows :~
22:07 < genete> ah
22:07 < pixelgeek> :S
22:07 < genete> format c: 
22:07 < pixelgeek> Well, that's the next step - get an SSD
22:08 < pixelgeek> Dual boot it Vista/Linux
22:08 < pixelgeek> Then later on in the year update it to Win7
22:09 < pixelgeek> But which Linux.....? 
22:10 < genete> it depends on what do you want: secure and stable: debian. Quick upadates large community: ubuntu. Full hardware support, guru people: Gentoo, etc....
22:11 < genete> Live CD are great things to taste
22:11 < Yoyobuae> these days with 1 terabyte HDD, why choose?
22:11 < Yoyobuae> might as well install all of them :D
22:12 < rore> ^^
22:12 < Yoyobuae> well, that's my plan at least ;)
22:13 < pixelgeek> LFS :)
22:13 < pixelgeek>  - the absolute minimum to support GTK & Synfig of course!
22:14 < rore> gentoo! Because you'll compile synfig anyway, so why not compile the rest? XD
22:21 < genete> and just a i7 or did you desssed it properly?
22:21 < pixelgeek> Which one has the coolest logo?  
22:22 < pixelgeek> desssed?  
22:22 < genete> cpu fan, ram, hard disk speed, motherboard...
22:23 < genete> dress*
22:23 < Yoyobuae> lol, CPU without fan/heatsink
22:23 < pixelgeek> x58 chipset, 6 Gig tri channel DDR3, 750Gig HD
22:23 < Yoyobuae> maybe if you're trying to make a toaster oven :)
22:25 < genete> I'd love to compare my PC synfig render bench marking against yours :)
22:26 < pixelgeek> :) :) :D
22:26 < pixelgeek> I think 80Gig SSD for a boot disk/OS/compile env
22:32 < pixelgeek> Oh, and Radeon 4670 dual DVI video card.  
22:33 < pixelgeek> Hopefully it should be able to drive two monitors at the same time :)
22:33 < genete> Mine is dual DVI output too and it woks very well with dual monitor (cloned, independent or contiguous)
22:34 < genete> I use only for video reproduction not on the desktop
22:36 < pixelgeek> hey genete - does you latest submit improve stability?
22:36 < genete> I hope so
22:37 < pixelgeek> I'll have to try it and see if it helps the 'jumping about on the timeline' or 'multi cpu' issues
22:41 < pixelgeek> Did your fix mean that it's not now queueing before and after keyframes?  
22:41 < pixelgeek> (in non-onionskin mode)?
22:43 < genete> before the commit it was sending queues on time and on next and previous keyframes's time in tile render ALWAYS. But after (in other portion of code) the render wasn't produced because it checks again if the onionskin is set or not. 
22:43 < genete> Now it prevents to queue any onionskin current time, previous or next keyframe UNLESS onionskin is true
22:44 < genete> that was for tile render. For scanline render I just move the condition before the queue for the current time
22:45 < genete> for the same reason
22:52 < pixelgeek> Cool, so probably not noticeably faster, but maybe a little more stable then.  
22:53 < Yoyobuae> hmm, would it be possible to expand my terminal window with dual monitors, :D
22:54 < Yoyobuae> i love having a terminal with lots of lines 
22:58 < Yoyobuae> http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9383/snapshot4lvw.png
22:58 < genete> Yoyobuae: decrease your font size
22:58 < Yoyobuae> :)
22:58 < Yoyobuae> i did
22:59 < Yoyobuae> 60 lines, woot =D
22:59 < Yoyobuae> guess what's the source code on the screenshot? ;)
23:05 < genete> yeah!
23:05 < genete> but it is c, right?
23:06 < genete> vector objects using C and not C++, weird :)
23:08 < Yoyobuae> i was going for simplicity
23:10 < Yoyobuae> i mean i need this ready in one month :)
23:11 < Yoyobuae> s/need/needed/
23:12 < genete> "(23:08:43) Yoyobuae: i was going for simplicity" xD
23:13 < Yoyobuae> genete: whats so funny about it? :P
23:14 < genete> it is a just bounce ball... 
23:14 < Yoyobuae> its a "vector objects" bounce ball :P
23:15 < Yoyobuae> my goal here is to test the concepts, not just making a cool looking bounce ball :)
23:16 < genete> I know, but for a moment the "simplicity" word make me laugh :D
23:16 < Yoyobuae> :P
23:18 < Yoyobuae> genete: do you use the "insults" option on sudo?
23:18 < genete> oh, there are eastern eggs in sudo?
23:19 < Yoyobuae> yeah, it prints an "insult" when you mistype a password
23:19 < genete> no I don't
23:19 < genete> how do I enable it?
23:19 < Yoyobuae> I just got this:
23:19 < Yoyobuae> $ isudo make install
23:19 < Yoyobuae> [sudo] password for instally:
23:19 < Yoyobuae> Your mind just hasn't been the same since the electro-shock, has it?
23:20 < Yoyobuae> [sudo] password for instally:     
23:20 < genete> lol
23:21 < Yoyobuae> on sudoers add:
23:21 < Yoyobuae> Defaults        insults
23:21 < genete> I don't have isudo
23:22 < Yoyobuae> alias isudo='sudo -u instally sudo'
23:22 < Yoyobuae> i have one special user for each sudo task
23:22 < Yoyobuae> with different passwords
23:23 < Yoyobuae> yay for being paranoid about security :D
23:24 < genete> but how do I enable it?
23:24 < Yoyobuae> just add the option on sudoers file
23:25 < Yoyobuae> like i said above
23:31 < genete> how can I disable sudo remaining time? everytime I open a new terminal I can sudo without password
23:32 < Yoyobuae> Defaults:ALL    timestamp_timeout=0
23:33 < genete> well, I mean for this time not for always
23:33 < Yoyobuae> i think the only way to change it is in sudoers file
23:37 < Yoyobuae> genete: sudo -k
23:37 < Yoyobuae> then next sudo will ask for password
23:38 < genete> I did it accidentally, lol
23:39 < Yoyobuae> another one i got before:
23:39 < Yoyobuae> "my pet weasel can type better than you!"
23:39 < Yoyobuae> =D
23:58 < stonerfish> I just tried adding "insults" to the line with Default in my sudoers file.  
23:59 < stonerfish> Now I get a message "bossman@blackbox:/home/js$ sudo vim /etc/sudoers 
23:59 < stonerfish> >>> sudoers file: syntax error, line 8 <<<
23:59 < stonerfish> sudo: parse error in /etc/sudoers near line 8
23:59 < stonerfish> "
23:59 < stonerfish> So guess I have to do a single user boot to fix that......
--- Log closed Thu Mar 19 00:00:09 2009